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Budget functions in schematic

Question asked by WSTR on Oct 28, 2004
Latest reply on Nov 2, 2004 by WSTR

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Hi,
I am trying to get a budget analysis based on the examples in:
/Training/DesignGuide/dg_budget_prj
Well my problem is that Budget121.dsn the funcitions bud_tn and bud_nf are not working. Even thought the original data sets includes the right data which can be displayed. Running the simulation myself I get the message: operand: wrong type of parameter.
I just don't get it >:(
Finally I used the function as described in the documentation. But the there is the old nonsense sorting of the values. I will not work with prefixes to fix it. I will not wait for the ADS2004 version either.
I need the functions which are working with the budget_path in ADS2003C just as it is written in the examples.

Thank you for any hint. Best regards Wolfram

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nilesh1 Oct 29, 2004 5:43 AM
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Hello Wolfram,

I believe that those functions have the wrong syntax. I changed the eqn from this:
our_bnf=bud_nf( ,50.0,1 Hz,budget_path)
to this:
our_bnf=bud_nf(,,,,,budget_path)

Do the same chang to the other function:
our_btn=bud_tn(,,,,,budget_path)

and now the simulations work without any error messages. I hope that this workaround will help you.

The doc is NOT clear about this at all and I will notify the proper team to fix this issue.

Thanks.
Nilesh 8)
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WSTR Nov 1, 2004 9:09 PM
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Hi,
the new format is working great. But now I moved to the HB part and now it is getting even more bizarre. Trying to simulate Budget331 (ADS2003C, MSR2, Unix) is giving me the following error:

>Simulation / Synthesis Messages

Warning detected by HPEESOFSIM during HB analysis `HB1'.
Evaluation failed for ' AC_bfreq=bud_freq( ,budget_path,"AC1")': "AC_bfreq":
Function select_outer_indep(), argument 1 ("data") : parameter is null
Error detected by HPEESOFSIM during circuit set up.
Program exited due to:
Segmentation violation (signal 11)

Status / Summary

HPEESOFSIM (*) 2003C.304 Jul 8 2004 (built: 07/08/04 14:21:20)
Copyright Agilent Technologies, 1989-2003.

HB HB1[1] <(GEMX netlist)>
.
Message from HPEESOFSIM during DC analysis `HB1'.
Required filter order is calculated to be 1 for component
BPF2.CMP1

Message from HPEESOFSIM during DC analysis `HB1'.
Required filter order is calculated to be 5 for component
BPF1.CMP1

HB_NOISE HB1[1] <(GEMX netlist)>
.

AC AC1[1] <(GEMX netlist)> freq=1.96 GHz
.
******************************************
***** Abnormal Simulator Termination *****
******************************************
The simulator has unexpectedly terminated.

Slowly but surely I come to believe that there is a basic problem. I even instlled the maintainance software release 2. Is there the problem?

Please let me know Wolfram>:( ???
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nilesh1 Nov 2, 2004 3:04 AM
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Hello Wolfram,

There are several issues with this design. My advice to you is this. Please use separate designs for AC budget simulations and separate designs for HB budget simulations. Trying to put them all in one design is quite tricky, complicated and sometimes buggy.

In this particular case, I deactivated the HB controller and the 3 HB based budget equations. So I just have AC controller and 3 AC based budget equations. Within the AC controller I made sure that Budget calculation was turned ON. Noise was turned ON. Include Port Noise was turned on. For the P1Tone source, I made sure that Noise was Turned ON. Once this was done, I ran a simulation and I did NOT see any error messages.

Then I de-activated AC and its 3 eqns. I activated HB and its 3 eqns. Again I turned Budget ON in HB and also made non linear noise ON. Now I ran HB simulation and that works too.

I hope that solves your problem.

Running both AC and HB at the same time works ONLY if AC simulator is netlisted FIRST! There is no easy way for you to control this. One way to do it is to "touch" or slightly move the AC controller just before you start running a simulation. This will ensure that AC is netlisted before HB. But you will not remember to do this all the time and is not a good workaround. Its best to do 1 simulation at a time. It might be even better to COPY one of the simulators to a different design window altogether.

Overall, this particular example was used to demonstrate the Design Guide Developer's Studio. It doesn't look to be great way to learn Budget Analysis. I think some of the more simpler, better examples are listed below:

http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/adsdoc2003C/examples/tutorial/LearnBudget.html
http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/adsdoc2003C/examples/comsys/LinearBudget.html
http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/adsdoc2003C/examples/comsys/MultChnNLBdgt.html
http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/adsdoc2003C/examples/comsys/RFSystem.html

And dont forget we have a completely new Budget simulation analysis in ADS 2004A.
http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/products/ads2004a_new_14.html

Thanks
nilesh 8)
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WSTR Nov 2, 2004 10:38 PM
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Hi,
it is true that running AC- and HB-simulation seperately produces stable and correct results ... so far. But that is not what you sold!!! The examples are giving the impression that you are able to run both simulations in prallel. Because of that I lost quite a bit of time>:(
I had a look on the other examples. These examples are still using the budget function without the budget_path. This leads to this strange sorting problem, which is unacceptable. The solution with budget_path is the only unsable.
And here we go again: What is the format for BudGainComp and BudIP3deg in conjunction with budget_path???

Thank you Wolfram
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Budget functions in schematic

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