Product page listing the latest MSO6000 SW as a 'product' for $110....
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-35491.900846.00&cc=US&lc=eng
although also (currently) available to download.
First, we've been seeing increasing instances of new features listed as Standard on new oscilloscopes, Purchase license for existing..
Are they going to start charging for minor updates as well now?
This would be a really good way to alienate customers.
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-35491.900846.00&cc=US&lc=eng
although also (currently) available to download.
First, we've been seeing increasing instances of new features listed as Standard on new oscilloscopes, Purchase license for existing..
Are they going to start charging for minor updates as well now?
This would be a really good way to alienate customers.
Tektronix opened up the advanced triggering and fft stuff with their 3000 series scopes after they had matured. What a cool move.
I'm happy to see that you're still around...
I'm afraid that you're going to see more of this sort of thing as time goes on, from everybody. It turns out that there's this issue with something called "Delayed Revenue Recognition", which affects the company books, and earnings. The SEC is aparently looking at this really hard. I don't quite understand it, but here's what I do know:
- If you add a new feature to a product, and make a reasonable splash about it, you have to charge for it.
- If it's a small feature, then you don't have to charge for it.
- If you charge for it, then you can't roll it into a "free update". You have to charge for the update.
This is turning into a big issue across the board, since software is never static. Bug fixes get mixed in with 'upgrades', which get mixed in with 'new features'. I don't know where this will end up, but that's where it stands today.
Before the flames start, note that this represents my imperfect understanding of a complex subject.
Nice to see you on here as well. I'm still living in the same place; now you can see more of the house on Google Earth!
I still have ALL that 64000 stuff. Good thing it's packed into that office.
I'm not gonna flame. It just blows me away to think that the government can tell you that you must charge for something. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.
That sounds somewhat against the spirit of the Free Market..
Seems like there is a distinct lack of imagination going on here to avoid such dumbness from lawmakers affecting the relationship with customers.
What constitutes 'small' ? Compared to "being an oscilloscope", pretty much any feature that could be added is small. What proportion of the time is any non-core feature of an oscilloscope used by the majority of users?
Charge how much ? With Paypal it would be easy to make a nominal charge, say, 1 cent, with not admin costs to cover.
And anyway I don't live in a country with such dumb laws, I bought the equipment from a UK source, so there is no reason this idiocy should apply to me.
When anyone buys any software product, they expect improvements to happen over time without charge - this is standard industry practice. We effectively pay for the future improvements with the initial purchase price.
I'd be very disappointed with any manufacturer who just rolls over and stiffs their customers rather than find imaginitive ways to circumvent stupid, pointless and damaging laws.
Maybe Agilent should get a more imaginitive legal dept.
How about "Part of the purchase price and/or extended warranty of this product includes future unspecified software enhancements for the lifetime of the product" for a starter.
Or Maybe they don't want to fight it and it's just being used as an excuse to try making more money.
Another area related to software companies is described here:
http://www.grantthornton.com/portal/sit ... 28633841ca
I'm not sure if the firmware/software that runs a scope is considered the same as software that isn't bound so tightly with the same companies hardware.
(I did say it was a little reading)
Regards,
Tony
To quote...
'How about "Part of the purchase price and/or extended warranty of this product includes future unspecified software enhancements for the lifetime of the product" for a starter.'
If Agilent does that, then a portion of the revenue, equivalent to the estimated value of those future enhancements, must be set aside, and can't be recognized as revenue until those enhancements are added to the product. An estimate has to be made, at the time of the original sale, as to what the future value of those enhancements will be. If at the time the enhancements are added, they are determined to be worth more or less than the amount set aside, then accounting adjustments must be made for that, which affects past earnings. Yes, it's an accounting issue, but it still means that there is some work to be done. Where you purchase your equipment has no bearing on any of this. It's dependent on where the revenue is recognized (in this case, the U.S.).
Note that 'bug fixes' and 'minor enhancements' do not affect this. Unfortunately, it's hard to keep multiple SW streams going, one that has bug fixes only, and one that has bug fixes and enhancements.
I don't like this either. I've spent a good amount of time trying to understand it, and have made my feelings known internally.
"you are paying for the hardware - the firmware comes free." Therefore any extra functionality has a value proportional to 0, which is always 0
You also have to ask why does new functionality get added? In most cases to get more people to buy new kit and keep up with the competition. So why then can't it be treated in exactly the same way as advertising - i.e. it is a promotional thing, not a functional one. Its value is in attracting new sales, so the revenue happens there and there only. Once you get that out of the way then giving it to existing users has no revenue implications.
And what's a bugfix anyway?
I'd like to report the following bugs : My scope doesn't have serial trigger, measurement statistics, mask test etc. etc.
There - now you can add these to the next bugfix release and not charge for them!
And as for what's a 'minor' feature, I can't think of anything that's been added to the 6000 SW since pretty early on that couldn't be very convincingly argued as being a minor feature compared to the core scope functionality.
Maybe the real solution is to get some of your engineers to go talk to the accountants & lawyers. Engineers are good at solving problems in new and imaginitive ways to give customers what they want. That's what they do. Seems like accountants & lawyers are happiest doing the exact opposite.
Just curious - how many copies of this 'update' have actually been sold ? Ditto the 'standard on new scopes - purchase on existing ones' items?
New InfiniiVision software release version 5.26 available at no charge
Version 5.26 software for 5000, 6000 and 7000 Series oscilloscopes is now available at no additional charge.
In previous released versions of firmware 5.20 and 5.25, customers needed to purchase the N5466A InfiniiVision software upgrade to get the new features with that release. With 5.26, customers once again have access to the latest firmware upgrades and features at no charge by downloading the files on the Agilent Web. The purchase of the N5466A software upgrade is no longer required and it was removed from the price list Sept. 1, 2009.
For more information:
http://www.agilent.com/find/InfiniiVision_sw