Hey, I'm fairly raw with this sort of thing, so maybe its common knowledge and I just don't know it.

I have a R&S cal kit (ZV-Z32). The components look like they are typical Maury Microwave 3.5mm components, but there are no identifying model numbers. R&S seem to have just put their labels on them.

Anyway, I want to verify the devices within the kits, but I don't know what the expected phase values of the opens and shorts are. There is a floppy disk in the kit with a txt file. Below is a sample of what I'm looking at. I'm looking at the capacitive and inductive coefficients, but I'm not sure what to plug into my formulas to get the expected phase. Is there supposed to be an exponent at the end of those values, like E-25 or something? Other kits I have data for typically have the 4 values ranging from xxxE-15 to xxxE-45 or thereabouts. Basically, I'm trying to determine what to expect when measuring these devices on an Agilent 8510C.

any help would be great - or even just general information about interpreting and applying these numbers. As stated, I have a basic understanding, but nothing to the degree that an actual engineer would have. I'm just a lowly ex-military PMEL tech.

STD_NAME = OPEN (M)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .004344

STD_LOSS = .0047

STD_C0_L0 = 5.627873E-14

STD_C1_L1 = .09257

STD_C2_L2 = -.00748

STD_C3_L3 = .00075

STD_NAME = OPEN (F)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .0043

STD_LOSS = .0047

STD_C0_L0 = 5.749802E-14

STD_C1_L1 = .45648

STD_C2_L2 = -.00717

STD_C3_L3 = .00043

STD_NAME = SHORT (M)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .004995

STD_LOSS = .0054

STD_C0_L0 = 0

STD_C1_L1 = 0

STD_C2_L2 = 0

STD_C3_L3 = 0

STD_NAME = SHORT (F)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .005

STD_LOSS = .0054

STD_C0_L0 = 0

STD_C1_L1 = 0

STD_C2_L2 = 0

STD_C3_L3 = 0

I have a R&S cal kit (ZV-Z32). The components look like they are typical Maury Microwave 3.5mm components, but there are no identifying model numbers. R&S seem to have just put their labels on them.

Anyway, I want to verify the devices within the kits, but I don't know what the expected phase values of the opens and shorts are. There is a floppy disk in the kit with a txt file. Below is a sample of what I'm looking at. I'm looking at the capacitive and inductive coefficients, but I'm not sure what to plug into my formulas to get the expected phase. Is there supposed to be an exponent at the end of those values, like E-25 or something? Other kits I have data for typically have the 4 values ranging from xxxE-15 to xxxE-45 or thereabouts. Basically, I'm trying to determine what to expect when measuring these devices on an Agilent 8510C.

any help would be great - or even just general information about interpreting and applying these numbers. As stated, I have a basic understanding, but nothing to the degree that an actual engineer would have. I'm just a lowly ex-military PMEL tech.

STD_NAME = OPEN (M)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .004344

STD_LOSS = .0047

STD_C0_L0 = 5.627873E-14

STD_C1_L1 = .09257

STD_C2_L2 = -.00748

STD_C3_L3 = .00075

STD_NAME = OPEN (F)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .0043

STD_LOSS = .0047

STD_C0_L0 = 5.749802E-14

STD_C1_L1 = .45648

STD_C2_L2 = -.00717

STD_C3_L3 = .00043

STD_NAME = SHORT (M)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .004995

STD_LOSS = .0054

STD_C0_L0 = 0

STD_C1_L1 = 0

STD_C2_L2 = 0

STD_C3_L3 = 0

STD_NAME = SHORT (F)

STD_SER_NO = 100677

STD_MIN_FREQ = 0

STD_MAX_FREQ = 26500000000

STD_LENGTH = .005

STD_LOSS = .0054

STD_C0_L0 = 0

STD_C1_L1 = 0

STD_C2_L2 = 0

STD_C3_L3 = 0

> Hey, I'm fairly raw with this sort of thing, so maybe its common knowledge and I just don't know it.

I have a R&S cal kit (ZV-Z32). The components look like they are typical Maury Microwave 3.5mm components, but there are no identifying model numbers. R&S seem to have just put their labels on them.

Anyway, I want to verify the devices within the kits

I guess it depends what you mean by "verify", but Agilent state in at least the manuals of some kits (probably all of them), than only the manufacturer can verify the performance, as the equipment to do so is purpose built, and not commerically available.

I assume you want to measure the phase and convince yourself that you are getting the sort of numbers to be expected based on the coefficients. I've done that myself!

> There is a floppy disk in the kit with a txt file. Below is a sample of what I'm looking at. I'm looking at the capacitive and inductive coefficients, but I'm not sure what to plug into my formulas to get the expected phase. Is there supposed to be an exponent at the end of those values, like E-25 or something? Other kits I have data for typically have the 4 values ranging from xxxE-15 to xxxE-45 or thereabouts. Basically, I'm trying to determine what to expect when measuring these devices on an Agilent 8510C.

> STD_C0_L0 = 5.627873E-14

> STD_C1_L1 = .09257

> STD_C2_L2 = -.00748

> STD_C3_L3 = .00075

Since this is an open, those must be fringing capacitance coefficients. But they seem to be expressed in a different way to Agilent express them. Agilent express the fringing capacitance in Farads as

C = C0 * 10^-15 + C1 *10^-27 f + C2 10^-36 f^2 + C3 10^-45 f^3.

where f is in Hz.

It's possible Rohde & Schwarz use a different method to specify the coefficients, even though both Agilent and Rohde & Schwarz have at least some of their kits made by Maury Microwave. I would read a Rohde & Schwarz application note, and find out how they specify the coefficients.

If you use the Agilent method, and C0 was really 5.627873E-14, then at DC the fringing capacitance would be 5.627873E-14*10^-15 = 5.627873E-29 Farads. That seems far too small.

My guess is looking at the numbers you show, Agilent and Rohde & Schwarz express the fringing capacitance in a different way.

> STD_LENGTH = .0043

Again, that seems as though it might be a bit different to me. Agilent specify an offset as a "delay", so has units of time, which ranges from 0 to a few ten's of ps normally. The Rohde & Schwarz use of the word "STD_LENGTH" indicates to me this might be expressed in units of length - perhaps this is 4.3 mm.

My gut feeling is the data you have will allow you to compute the fringing capacitance, and with the offset will allow you to compute the phase shift. But I suspect Rohde & Schwarz express the numbers in a different way to Agilent, so you need to read a Rohde & Schwarz manual or a Rohde & Schwarz application note to find out how it is done. Once you have done that, it should be a simple matter of converting the numbers into the Agilent fomat, and using those on your 8710

Likewise the same for the shorts.

IIRC, Anritsu use the same method of expressing fringing capacitance as Agilent, but it looks to me as if Rohde & Schwarz probably do not.

Dave