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Rejuvenating a 16902A with a new motherboard

Question asked by libor on May 31, 2014
Latest reply on Jul 9, 2014 by algoss

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I have purchased a used 16902A Logic Analyser (with 16950A and 16910A modules). It is one of the earlier models running Windows XP.

Reading through the Service Manual I see it has a plain vanilla microATX PC motherboard built in. I am just wondering if I can replace the motherboard with a state-of-the-art model with a fast processor more RAM and SATA drives (I would attach a small SSD as the system drive) The old has an IDE interface fro the HDD. Would also like to use any USB keyboard and a USB mouse. (I have retired my PS/2 stuff a long time ago) And of course I would like to install Windows 7 on it instead of the unsupported XP. (just would not like to go back in time each time I switch from my PC to the analyzer's screen)

If I got it right the analyser's built-in PC motherboard is connected to the proprietary hardware (the logic analyser part) only thru a PCI card, that must be mechanically and electronically compatible with any new microATX board's PCI slot. It is also encouraging that the manual says that the built-in microATX mobo-s can differ, the newer batches of this same model 16902A had already Windows 7 factory-installed. The renewed model 16902B has more up-to-date motherboards (already with SATA, etc.)

Could you please comment on if my idea is feasible ? Are there some deliberate hurdles built in (the logic analyzer software is maybe tied somehow to the motherboard model ?) so I cannot rejuvenate my device so easily ?

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algoss Jun 1, 2014 6:07 PM
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It may work, and it may not, probably not. I have been told multiple times, by different people (many of whom I've know for 20+ years), that it can't be done.

There are BIOS changes, driver issues, and yes, the LA SW does look at the model of motherboard, because it has to run slightly differently on each of the various platforms and motherboards we've used over the years.

Al
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- libor @ algoss on Jun 2, 2014 1:39 AM
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  Thank you. I am also worried about drivers and LA SW issues. Perhaps it would be safer to exactly follow Agilent when selecting the motherboard. The Installation Guide says: +The legacy 16900 series Logic Analysis systems have the Windows XP installation. The 16900 logic analysis systems with the serial number of MY51420101 or higher have Windows 7 installed.+
  +...The 16900 series of Logic Analysis systems with serial number of MY51420101 or higher require the Agilent Logic Analyzer software version 5.20 or later.+
  
  I suppose the motherboard was changed from MY51420101, could you please give me a clue what model of microATX PC motherboard is used from then (or knowing the motherboard model that was built in the very last 16902A would even be better), so I could go exactly that path and install Windows 7 and LA SW 5.20 as it were a post-MY51420101 unit so I would both have a newer OS and LA SW version. Beside the motherboard and Windows 7 is there anything else changed from MY51420101 in the hardware that LA SW would look for?
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  - algoss @ libor on Jun 2, 2014 3:15 AM
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    That quote from the help only applies to 16800 and 16900 family products that were in production in 2011, which does NOT include the 16902A. The motherboard was not switched at that point.
    
    The 16902B included the newer motherboard, which, among other things, added digital video. The sheetmetal, both inside the frame, and on the back panel, are somewhat different. The newer motherboards will not fit in the older frames. The newer motherboard had the resources necessary to make an easy switch to Windows 7.
    
    Al
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    - libor @ algoss on Jun 2, 2014 4:39 AM
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      Thanks. I will try it and see, maybe with just an improvised setup first, not caring about fitting in the frame mechanically, hope the connectors will reach, and post the results (...in case someone is interested)
      
      You write: 'The motherboard was not switched at that point.' (when Windows 7 was introduced) <> 'The newer motherboard had the resources necessary to make an easy switch to Windows 7' Could you please clarify on this ?
      
      One more question. On the block diagram of the 16902A I see the video and the RS232 signals (suppose the latter is the touch panel's data) are routed from the PCI board and then thru the MIB (module interface board) and then to the Front Panel Interface Board. Are these intermediary boards do something with these signals electronically, or were these boards involved only for mechanical reasons ?
      
      In case the newer software version will not support the old video path can I fully bypass the built-in video and attach an external LCD monitor with a USB touch panel interface (both connected directly to the motherboard), and have a fully functional analyzer ?
      Is this the scenario when the 16902A (and especially the monitorless 16900A) is used with an just an external monitor and an external pointing device ?
      The manual says 'up to four external monitors are supported at up to 1600 x 1200 resolution Requires PCI video card.' does it indicate that any video is supported as long as it is a standard PCI video card that Windows can drive. ..or is it something proprietary?
      
      ...to keep the pretty look and compactness maybe I could then try to find a 12.1 size LCD panel with digital input (and a better resolution than 800x600) that would fit in the frame to replace the old panel.
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      - algoss @ libor on Jun 5, 2014 6:03 AM
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        I'm sorry, but you are on your own... This is not supported in any way by Agilent
        
        A few last answers:
        
        - The newer motherboard had a faster processor and more memory. Win7 just wouldn't work on the older one.
        
        - It is possible to install a PCI Video card that supports 4 monitors. I've seen it done.
        
        Al
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        dhaentzs @ algoss on Jun 26, 2014 12:21 AM
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        Interesting thread. I did the same on my 16900A logic analyzer within the last days.
        I selected a of the shelf i7 motherboard (Gigabyte GA-Z87M-HD3, rev 1.0) which has the PCI connector on the right location and contains a serial interface. To get the board working, I had to connect the additional 4pin ATX (12V supply) header to the back plane of the logic analyzer (4pin header is already available on the back plane).
        Then I installed Windows7 and the latest logic analyzer software on the SSD.
        The PCI device drivers (PCI-RIO,....) are installed without any issues.
        Everything looked perfect and I thought I'm done.
        After rebooting the system, the software tries to initialize the LA hardware and then I get the following initialization error:
        "NO VALID ID DETECTED IN FRAME! REQUIRES PROPER SYSTEM BIOS!"
        This error looks like there is a software check for the motherboard ID, and if the ID is different, the error occurs.
        
        One other possible issue could be the serial interface on the motherboard. The new board has only one COM and this usually COM1. On the original board there are two COM ports and the LA hardware was connected to COM2.
        Changing the IO space and the IRQ, to match the COM2 address and IRQ settings is not possible in the BIOS. I changed this in Windows, but I'm not sure if this is sufficient.
        
        Please can you explain the reason for this Error Message. Is this because of the not properly working COM port (wrong configuration within the BIOS) or is there any other hint or work around to get the system running.
        
        Thanks a lot for your help
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        algoss @ dhaentzs on Jun 26, 2014 5:21 AM
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        To quote from an earlier response, "I'm sorry, but you are on your own... This is not supported in any way by Agilent"
        
        The Logic Analyzers use Windows 7 Embedded, which is generally not available, except to OEM's, AFAIK. There are also some BIOS changes, including some not available to the general public. Other people who have tried to rebuild their systems using their own licenses for one of the various Windows 7 version have run into problems, and in some cases have "bricked" their analyzers.
        
        There are supported ways to do Windows 7 upgrades on many of the older Windows XP analyzers. They are not inexpensive, or customer-installable. They are however, supported and warrantied by Agilent.
        
        Al
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        libor @ algoss on Jun 26, 2014 10:03 AM
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        My used LA is just arriving, so I am still ahead of the hassle of trying to upgrade it...
        
        All Embedded Microsoft OS are freely available from Microsoft for evaluation. Their download site of their embedded products is here: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/downloads.aspx
        
        "There are also some BIOS changes"
        Are these real functional changes ? or just some magic byte/checksum to be checked by the LA software so we can't bypass the official (ie. expensive) part ?
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        algoss @ libor on Jul 9, 2014 4:42 AM
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        To quote from an earlier response, "I'm sorry, but you are on your own... This is not supported in any way by Agilent"
        
        Al
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Rejuvenating a 16902A with a new motherboard

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