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HP 8569b mixer amplifier

Question asked by jonmac12345 on Dec 1, 2010
Latest reply on Jan 28, 2011 by tabbott

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HP 8569b mixer amplifier.

Hi guys, can the above spectrum analyzer be used where the amplifier shown as "needed" in mixer setup diagrams be dispensed with where using mixers for the machine. Also is Optiion E02 a built in on all machines, and if it is not does the IF in and out being present on the front of the maxhine indicate E02 is present. Thanx in advance. Anyone know where I can get a machine to reach 325 ghz without a preamp at a budget of $2500. let me know and stop laughing I know it will be a miracle. Thats why I would maybe settle for a machine like above, its limit is 115 ghz but its better than nothing. Doing tests to 325 ghz and above with newly invented module complete bandwidth output 35db gain 0-325+ghz.

John

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tabbott Dec 7, 2010 3:27 PM
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Hi John -

The 8569B spectrum analyzer came standard with IF Input and 1st LO Output ports to support the 11971K/A/Q/U/V-Series Harmonic Mixers. These mixers covered frequencies up to 71 GHz with the 8569B.

Opt E02 was designed to allow use of the older, 11517-Series external mixers, which only covered up to 40 GHz. I have very little information on Opt E02, but I believe it replaced the SMA IF Input connector on the front panel with a BNC connector that had both 1st LO and IF signals diplexed onto it. Option E02 is not in all 8569Bs.

The amplifier I believe you are referring to is the 11975A LO Amplifier. The 1st LO Output of the 8569B is only warranted to have an output >+8 dBm and is not level-controlled, but the 11971-Series mixers are specified for LO Input power levels between +14 dBm to +18 dBm. The 11971 frequency response specifications are improved if the LO can be maintained between +14.5 dBm and +16 dBm. The 11975A can provide a leveled LO signal over this tighter range.

I do not know if an 8569B that has Opt E02 can still also drive the 11971-Series mixers. I recommend you avoid Opt E02 if you want to cover up to 115 GHz. Look instead for an 8569B that has SMA connectors for both the 1st LO Output (on the left underneath the CRT) and the IF Input (to the right of the Type N input connector). If the 8569B has Opt E02, it should be listed in the options on the serial tag on the rear panel.

In regards to finding a spectrum analyzer for $2500 that will cover up to 325 GHz (with the appropriate external mixers), that is going to be very hard to find. However, you might find some older analyzers on the used market that are capable of this. Here are the model numbers of some old HP spectrum analyzers to consider:

HP 8560A – 100 Hz to 2.9 GHz (external mixing not supported if Opt 002, Tracking Generator, is installed)
HP 8561A – 9 kHz to 6.5 GHz
HP 8561B – 100 Hz to 6.5 GHz
HP 8562A – 9 kHz to 22/26.5 GHz
HP 8562B – 9 kHz to 22 GHz (un-preselected >2.9 GHz)
HP 8563A – 100 Hz to 22/26.5 GHz

Please understand that all of the above models have been discontinued and are out of support. The above models can be used with the 11970-Series of external mixers and mixers from other companies, such as Oleson Microwave Labs. The 11970-Series mixers cover up to 110 GHz.

Regards -

Relevant Products:#8569B,11971K,11975A,8560A,8561A,8561B,8562A,8562B,8563A#
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jonmac12345 Dec 12, 2010 11:36 AM
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The person who wrote that the following machines reach 325 is as far as datasheets go incorrect. The wording of the datasheets clearly imply that the 8560 & 8561 do not have capacity for mixers, although as I see it such capability might be added and that the datasheets represent standard capability. It must I think need to be presumed that the wording be carefully thought through and that the Lo IF being present may be an indicator to ask if the option is present. Again on standard machines represented by datasheets the 325 ghz capability is not represented as present.
[b]In regards to finding a spectrum analyzer for $2500 that will cover up to 325 GHz (with the appropriate external mixers), that is going to be very hard to find. However, you might find some older analyzers on the used market that are capable of this. Here are the model numbers of some old HP spectrum analyzers to consider:

HP 8560A – 100 Hz to 2.9 GHz (external mixing not supported if Opt 002, Tracking Generator, is installed) (DO NOT REACH 325 ghz according to datasheets that I have found)
HP 8561A – 9 kHz to 6.5 GHz (DO NOT REACH 325 ghz according to datasheets that I have found)
HP 8561B – 100 Hz to 6.5 GHz (DO NOT REACH 325 ghz according to datasheets that I have found)
HP 8562A – 9 kHz to 22/26.5 GHz
HP 8562B – 9 kHz to 22 GHz (un-preselected >2.9 GHz)
HP 8563A – 100 Hz to 22/26.5 GHz

Please understand that all of the above models have been discontinued and are out of support. The above models can be used with the 11970-Series of external mixers and mixers from other companies, such as Oleson Microwave Labs. The 11970-Series mixers cover up to 110 GHz.[/b]

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tabbott

Dec 22, 2010 12:02 PM

Hi -

Jonmac12345 is probably referring to datasheets that are specific to the 8560A, 8561A, or 8561B. These datasheets were targeted to customers making RF spectrum analysis measurements, as opposed to microwave and/or millimeter wave measurements. As a result, these datasheets would not focus on the ability to make millimeter wave measurements using external mixers.

Most customers needing millimeter coverage preferred a spectrum analyzer that could cover up to at least 18 GHz in internal mixing (more typically 21 or 22 GHz) and then up to >110 GHz in external mixing using waveguide mixers, such as the HP 11970 Series. Obviously, the 8560A, 8561A, and 8561B could not provide the internal mixing coverage these customers wanted, even though they were capable of external mixing from 18 to 325 GHz.

However, the datasheets (or “brochures”) that were written for the entire 856x family of products tended to also mention the broader capabilities the individual models had to offer. For example, in one of the older HP catalogs, the third paragraph describing the HP 8560A and HP 8561B included the following:

“For millimeter applications that don’t require full microwave coverage, the HP 8560A and 8561B provide lower cost solutions. Both are compatible with HP 11970 series harmonic mixers and HP 11974 series preselected millimeter mixers.”

Here’s a URL where the customer can read more: https://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/ ... _8560a.PDF

I can assure you that the 8560A (without Opt 002), 8561A, and 8561B can indeed support external mixing from 18 to 325 GHz.

Regards -

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yngvae2 Jan 28, 2011 12:37 AM

hi i see you know a lot about the external mixers. I have an hp 8562a with
serial that says its made in 1986: starts with 26 and it has firmware from
1987, do you know if the 11970a series mixer will work for it? because I
saw a chart a while back from an agilent employee that wasnt too sure and
it said that compatiblity for 8562a needed h51 option or the mixer option
for serials below 92 I believe and all 8563a worked with them. can you
confirm this? but when I go into the menus, all the same software is there
comparing my unit with opt h51 and without any options . i have a few 8562a
and I need to know if they are all compatible. meanwhile im in the process
of finding a waveguide to sma adapter to test them. but I would like to
know asap. have you ever tried the mixers on the older units from 1986?
does opt h51 merely allow usage of older mixers before the 11970 series>
thanks so much!
paul booth

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tabbott

Jan 28, 2011 1:44 PM

Hi Paul -

HP8562A Opt H51 had only one hardware change: the lithium battery used for memory retention was changed to a silver-oxide battery. This was required by the US Navy (they were the customer for whom HP 8562A-H51 was designed) for use aboard submarines. The HP 8562A-H51 was the major component of the HP 8562A-E51 system. This system included two 11970-Series external mixers (11970K and 11970A) to extend the frequency range to 40 GHz. The external mixers and their associated cables and wrenches were housed in the front panel impact cover.

All 8562As are compatible with the 11970-Series mixers. You do not need any option of the 8562A to do external mixing.

To use the 8562A with older mixers (i.e. the HP 11517-Series and some mixers from non-HP/Agilent sources), you would need a diplexer. The 11517-Series mixers used a single port for both the IF and LO signal, whereas the 8562A has separate IF and LO ports. The diplexer that HP/Agilent had designed is no longer available, but a functionally similar one is available through Oleson Microwave Labs.

Regards -

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HP 8569b mixer amplifier

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