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vrf Future ovv Vee

Question asked by VRFuser on Mar 21, 2005
Latest reply on Mar 21, 2005 by VRFuser

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 1:21 AM
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> heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 1:21 AM
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Correct Answer
> heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 1:21 AM
Mark Correct
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> heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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SteveE Mar 17, 2005 2:35 AM
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Ken,
I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it from another
co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from someone
still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently assigned to work on VEE
anymore. Can't get any more direct than that...right? As you probably
saw, the original posting on this subject proportedly came from an Agilent
employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a similar rumor at one
time, (which I had). I went on to write that after talking to Mario (last
name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came away with the sense that the
rumor was just that, and probably had no basis in fact. But then again,
sadly, I have seen cases where the people working on a project were the last
to know that the project was to be terminated. I hope that this is not the
case.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
To: Estrin, Stephen
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi Stephen:

Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE Project
Manager and we have no intention of stopping development on VEE.
We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to try
to correct them.

Thanks,

Ken

P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: VRF
Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent and/or
HP would not be doing any further development beyond the current version.
But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent yesterday for quite a
while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and VEE in
general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the future of VEE,
he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work supporting VEE, especially
version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the rumors are true, a
lot of the time a company will deny things like that right up to the minute
they pull the plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
To: VRF
Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near future by
Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?

Mike Purtell
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa

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SteveE Mar 17, 2005 2:35 AM
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Correct Answer
Ken,
I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it from another
co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from someone
still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently assigned to work on VEE
anymore. Can't get any more direct than that...right? As you probably
saw, the original posting on this subject proportedly came from an Agilent
employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a similar rumor at one
time, (which I had). I went on to write that after talking to Mario (last
name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came away with the sense that the
rumor was just that, and probably had no basis in fact. But then again,
sadly, I have seen cases where the people working on a project were the last
to know that the project was to be terminated. I hope that this is not the
case.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
To: Estrin, Stephen
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi Stephen:

Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE Project
Manager and we have no intention of stopping development on VEE.
We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to try
to correct them.

Thanks,

Ken

P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: VRF
Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent and/or
HP would not be doing any further development beyond the current version.
But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent yesterday for quite a
while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and VEE in
general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the future of VEE,
he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work supporting VEE, especially
version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the rumors are true, a
lot of the time a company will deny things like that right up to the minute
they pull the plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
To: VRF
Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near future by
Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?

Mike Purtell
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa

---
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SteveE Mar 17, 2005 2:35 AM
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Ken,
I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it from another
co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from someone
still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently assigned to work on VEE
anymore. Can't get any more direct than that...right? As you probably
saw, the original posting on this subject proportedly came from an Agilent
employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a similar rumor at one
time, (which I had). I went on to write that after talking to Mario (last
name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came away with the sense that the
rumor was just that, and probably had no basis in fact. But then again,
sadly, I have seen cases where the people working on a project were the last
to know that the project was to be terminated. I hope that this is not the
case.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
To: Estrin, Stephen
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi Stephen:

Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE Project
Manager and we have no intention of stopping development on VEE.
We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to try
to correct them.

Thanks,

Ken

P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: VRF
Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent and/or
HP would not be doing any further development beyond the current version.
But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent yesterday for quite a
while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and VEE in
general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the future of VEE,
he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work supporting VEE, especially
version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the rumors are true, a
lot of the time a company will deny things like that right up to the minute
they pull the plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
To: VRF
Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near future by
Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?

Mike Purtell
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa

---
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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 3:34 PM
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2654.45"><TITLE>RE: [vrf] Confirmation of Vxl Announcement</TITLE></HEAD><BODY>This is sure sign that Agilent will abandon VEE > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Wale [<A HREF="mailto:gregwale@passtechnologies.com">mailto:gregwale@passtechnologies.com</A>] > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:20 PM > To: VRF > Subject: [vrf] Confirmation of Vxl Announcement > > > This is to confirm the press announcement on March 8, 2005 of > theintended > sale by PASS Technologies to Agilent Technologies of the Vxl > add-in for > integration into Agilent VEE Pro graphical programming > language.By tightly > integrating the capabilities in the Vxl products, Agilent VEE > Pro will allow > users to seamlessly exchange data with Microsoft Excel as > well as control > Excel to quickly create professional test reports. Since > Agilent will move > the Vxl capabilities directly into future versions of VEE Pro,anyone > wishing to purchase Vxlas a separately installable add-in > for use in VEE > Pro version 7 or earliercan purchase Vxl through April 7, > 2005, from PASS > Technologies: www.passtechnologies.com. After this date, Agilent will > provide support for existing Vxl products. > > Vxl 2.0 (99$) supports Agilent VEE Pro 6 or 7 and Vxl 1.0 > (79$) supports > Agilent VEE Pro 5. The full press announcement can be viewed at: > <A HREF="http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2005/08mar-ep050" TARGET="_blank">http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2005/08mar-ep050</A> > 31.html or > <A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85672_1.html" TARGET="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85672_1.html</A>. > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to vrf as: William.Drago@l-3com.com > To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". > If you need help with the mailing list send a message to > "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > This e-mail and subsequent attachments may contain information which is proprietary to L-3 Communications Corporation. The contents shall not be disclosed, copied, distributed or used unless authorized by L-3 Communications Narda - East.--- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: rsb@soco.agilent.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".</BODY></HTML>
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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 3:34 PM
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2654.45"><TITLE>RE: [vrf] Confirmation of Vxl Announcement</TITLE></HEAD><BODY>This is sure sign that Agilent will abandon VEE > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Wale [<A HREF="mailto:gregwale@passtechnologies.com">mailto:gregwale@passtechnologies.com</A>] > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:20 PM > To: VRF > Subject: [vrf] Confirmation of Vxl Announcement > > > This is to confirm the press announcement on March 8, 2005 of > theintended > sale by PASS Technologies to Agilent Technologies of the Vxl > add-in for > integration into Agilent VEE Pro graphical programming > language.By tightly > integrating the capabilities in the Vxl products, Agilent VEE > Pro will allow > users to seamlessly exchange data with Microsoft Excel as > well as control > Excel to quickly create professional test reports. Since > Agilent will move > the Vxl capabilities directly into future versions of VEE Pro,anyone > wishing to purchase Vxlas a separately installable add-in > for use in VEE > Pro version 7 or earliercan purchase Vxl through April 7, > 2005, from PASS > Technologies: www.passtechnologies.com. After this date, Agilent will > provide support for existing Vxl products. > > Vxl 2.0 (99$) supports Agilent VEE Pro 6 or 7 and Vxl 1.0 > (79$) supports > Agilent VEE Pro 5. The full press announcement can be viewed at: > <A HREF="http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2005/08mar-ep050" TARGET="_blank">http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2005/08mar-ep050</A> > 31.html or > <A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85672_1.html" TARGET="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85672_1.html</A>. > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to vrf as: William.Drago@l-3com.com > To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". > If you need help with the mailing list send a message to > "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > This e-mail and subsequent attachments may contain information which is proprietary to L-3 Communications Corporation. The contents shall not be disclosed, copied, distributed or used unless authorized by L-3 Communications Narda - East.--- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: rsb@soco.agilent.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".</BODY></HTML>
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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 3:34 PM
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2654.45"><TITLE>RE: [vrf] Confirmation of Vxl Announcement</TITLE></HEAD><BODY>This is sure sign that Agilent will abandon VEE > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Wale [<A HREF="mailto:gregwale@passtechnologies.com">mailto:gregwale@passtechnologies.com</A>] > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:20 PM > To: VRF > Subject: [vrf] Confirmation of Vxl Announcement > > > This is to confirm the press announcement on March 8, 2005 of > theintended > sale by PASS Technologies to Agilent Technologies of the Vxl > add-in for > integration into Agilent VEE Pro graphical programming > language.By tightly > integrating the capabilities in the Vxl products, Agilent VEE > Pro will allow > users to seamlessly exchange data with Microsoft Excel as > well as control > Excel to quickly create professional test reports. Since > Agilent will move > the Vxl capabilities directly into future versions of VEE Pro,anyone > wishing to purchase Vxlas a separately installable add-in > for use in VEE > Pro version 7 or earliercan purchase Vxl through April 7, > 2005, from PASS > Technologies: www.passtechnologies.com. After this date, Agilent will > provide support for existing Vxl products. > > Vxl 2.0 (99$) supports Agilent VEE Pro 6 or 7 and Vxl 1.0 > (79$) supports > Agilent VEE Pro 5. The full press announcement can be viewed at: > <A HREF="http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2005/08mar-ep050" TARGET="_blank">http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2005/08mar-ep050</A> > 31.html or > <A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85672_1.html" TARGET="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85672_1.html</A>. > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to vrf as: William.Drago@l-3com.com > To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". > If you need help with the mailing list send a message to > "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > This e-mail and subsequent attachments may contain information which is proprietary to L-3 Communications Corporation. The contents shall not be disclosed, copied, distributed or used unless authorized by L-3 Communications Narda - East.--- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: rsb@soco.agilent.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".</BODY></HTML>
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ramarquardt Mar 17, 2005 3:57 PM
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Someone or somemorethanone has apparently confused St. Patrick's Day with April 1st (A.K.A. April |blank> Day)where:blank = Something other than a sunken ship full ovv mayonnaise. This will only be revealed on a "need to know" basis in order to avert a general panic.

<table width=100%><tr valign=top><td><td>"Les Hammer" |Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com>03/17/2005 06:21 PM
Please respond to "Les Hammer"
<td> 
 To: VRF |vrf@agilent.com>
 cc: 
 Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee</table>

 > heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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ramarquardt Mar 17, 2005 3:57 PM
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Someone or somemorethanone has apparently confused St. Patrick's Day with April 1st (A.K.A. April |blank> Day)where:blank = Something other than a sunken ship full ovv mayonnaise. This will only be revealed on a "need to know" basis in order to avert a general panic.

<table width=100%><tr valign=top><td><td>"Les Hammer" |Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com>03/17/2005 06:21 PM
Please respond to "Les Hammer"
<td> 
 To: VRF |vrf@agilent.com>
 cc: 
 Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee</table>

 > heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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ramarquardt Mar 17, 2005 3:57 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Someone or somemorethanone has apparently confused St. Patrick's Day with April 1st (A.K.A. April |blank> Day)where:blank = Something other than a sunken ship full ovv mayonnaise. This will only be revealed on a "need to know" basis in order to avert a general panic.

<table width=100%><tr valign=top><td><td>"Les Hammer" |Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com>03/17/2005 06:21 PM
Please respond to "Les Hammer"
<td> 
 To: VRF |vrf@agilent.com>
 cc: 
 Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee</table>

 > heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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PVittorini Mar 17, 2005 4:08 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
Instruments, someone in the LabView department???
Shades of X-Files, Trust no 1.

Pat Vittorini
Lab Manager
TenXC Wireless
* 613-591-6696 Ext 244
* PVittorini@tenxc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Les Hammer [mailto:Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

> heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone
currently assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come
from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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PVittorini Mar 17, 2005 4:08 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
Instruments, someone in the LabView department???
Shades of X-Files, Trust no 1.

Pat Vittorini
Lab Manager
TenXC Wireless
* 613-591-6696 Ext 244
* PVittorini@tenxc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Les Hammer [mailto:Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

> heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone
currently assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come
from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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PVittorini Mar 17, 2005 4:08 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
Instruments, someone in the LabView department???
Shades of X-Files, Trust no 1.

Pat Vittorini
Lab Manager
TenXC Wireless
* 613-591-6696 Ext 244
* PVittorini@tenxc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Les Hammer [mailto:Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

> heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone
currently assigned to work on VEE anymore.

And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come
from?
That by itself shows current activity.

Les Hammer
Partner
Complete Test
720 SW 14th St.
Loveland, CO. 80537
Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com

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dan.williams Mar 17, 2005 4:59 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the cost of an
upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a $200 dollar
upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think Agilent is losing
out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a manager and
co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable Vee would be
everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
package.

OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
and it's getting heavier and heavier.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Ken,
I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it from another
co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently assigned to
work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than that...right? As
you probably saw, the original posting on this subject proportedly came
from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write that after
talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where the people
working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
terminated. I hope that this is not the case.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
To: Estrin, Stephen
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi Stephen:

Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping development on VEE.
We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
try to correct them.

Thanks,

Ken

P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: VRF
Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond the current
version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent yesterday for
quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work supporting
VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things like that
right up to the minute they pull the plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
To: VRF
Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near future by
Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?

Mike Purtell
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa

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dan.williams Mar 17, 2005 4:59 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the cost of an
upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a $200 dollar
upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think Agilent is losing
out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a manager and
co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable Vee would be
everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
package.

OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
and it's getting heavier and heavier.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Ken,
I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it from another
co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently assigned to
work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than that...right? As
you probably saw, the original posting on this subject proportedly came
from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write that after
talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where the people
working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
terminated. I hope that this is not the case.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
To: Estrin, Stephen
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi Stephen:

Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping development on VEE.
We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
try to correct them.

Thanks,

Ken

P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: VRF
Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond the current
version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent yesterday for
quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work supporting
VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things like that
right up to the minute they pull the plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
To: VRF
Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near future by
Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?

Mike Purtell
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa

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dan.williams Mar 17, 2005 4:59 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the cost of an
upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a $200 dollar
upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think Agilent is losing
out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a manager and
co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable Vee would be
everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
package.

OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
and it's getting heavier and heavier.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Ken,
I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it from another
co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently assigned to
work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than that...right? As
you probably saw, the original posting on this subject proportedly came
from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write that after
talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where the people
working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
terminated. I hope that this is not the case.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
To: Estrin, Stephen
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi Stephen:

Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping development on VEE.
We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
try to correct them.

Thanks,

Ken

P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: VRF
Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

-----Original Message-----
From: Estrin, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond the current
version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent yesterday for
quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work supporting
VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things like that
right up to the minute they pull the plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
To: VRF
Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near future by
Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?

Mike Purtell
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa

---
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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 6:37 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer

> I think Agilent is losing out big time by over-pricing Vee.
> C programming is so embedded in the engineering community that
> it is an uphill battle to sell a manager and co-workers on the
> benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows.

More than that, LabVIEW is taught at the university level, and is
often on the campus computers for "free" use by the students.
Once they graduate, they know LabVIEW so they get LabVIEW. Then
since LabVIEW supports NI hardware so well they get NI hardware.
Agilent loses twice.

-- Les Hammer, Adjunct Faculty Colorado School of Mines.

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 6:37 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer

> I think Agilent is losing out big time by over-pricing Vee.
> C programming is so embedded in the engineering community that
> it is an uphill battle to sell a manager and co-workers on the
> benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows.

More than that, LabVIEW is taught at the university level, and is
often on the campus computers for "free" use by the students.
Once they graduate, they know LabVIEW so they get LabVIEW. Then
since LabVIEW supports NI hardware so well they get NI hardware.
Agilent loses twice.

-- Les Hammer, Adjunct Faculty Colorado School of Mines.

---
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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 6:37 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer

> I think Agilent is losing out big time by over-pricing Vee.
> C programming is so embedded in the engineering community that
> it is an uphill battle to sell a manager and co-workers on the
> benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows.

More than that, LabVIEW is taught at the university level, and is
often on the campus computers for "free" use by the students.
Once they graduate, they know LabVIEW so they get LabVIEW. Then
since LabVIEW supports NI hardware so well they get NI hardware.
Agilent loses twice.

-- Les Hammer, Adjunct Faculty Colorado School of Mines.

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 6:44 PM
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> Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
Instruments

NI does not even mention VEE at their seminars.
At least I do not remember it being mentioned at NI Week 2004.

-- Les Hammer

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 6:44 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
> Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
Instruments

NI does not even mention VEE at their seminars.
At least I do not remember it being mentioned at NI Week 2004.

-- Les Hammer

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VRFuser Mar 17, 2005 6:44 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
> Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
Instruments

NI does not even mention VEE at their seminars.
At least I do not remember it being mentioned at NI Week 2004.

-- Les Hammer

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VRFuser Mar 18, 2005 12:30 AM
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Correct Answer
Hi vrf,

> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

It's amusing to see this ancient rumour popping up yet again. With all
the activity of VEE TV and VEE Days (just finished up our third
consecutive year of VEE Days seminars in Europe!), and the 7.0
release--with another big release to follow later this year--it's pretty
obvious that it really is nothing more than a rumour that won't die.

To make it really clear: VEE is alive and well, and it's going to be
around for a long time. We're continually improving it, both fixing
defects and adding new features, as well as making it work better with
the wide world of PC software and hardware.

By the way, just yesterday we released the VEE 7.03 patch, see the URLs
below for download info. Those of you on Support should have received
email notification of availability of the patch kit by now.

And Marketing has agreed to let me tell you this: we're going to be
releasing a new version of VEE in a few months, and it will have a LOT
of new features and improvements in it. I've seen most of the features
(we talked about some of them at VEE Days), and I know you're going to
like them.

Anyway, here are some useful links, in case you want to show co-workers
or management what's happening with VEE these days:

<www.agilent.com/find/vee> - the main VEE page. Lots of pages linked
from here. Check out these recent items:
- the EDN Hot 100 Product of 2004 award that VEE recently received
- the news on Agilent acquiring Vxl (makes talking to Excel from VEE
pretty darn easy) from PASS Technologies
- the new VEE Pro Book from Bob Angus and Tom Hulbert. Yep, a brand-new
book on VEE

<www.agilent.com/find/agilentveetv> - this is the VEE TV home page, what
else! We've seen Episode 1: What's New in VEE 7.0, and Episode 2: Intro
to MATLAB Scripting. But you may not have seen our first VEE TV Special
Report: Test Engineer of the Year. Dude, you gotta spend 10 minutes and
check it out! A driverless motorcycle is something to see!

<www.agilent.com/find/adn> - come here for the VEE 7.03 patch and all
other VEE downloads. Look under Software Downloads on the left, select
Agilent VEE Pro.

<www.agilent.com/find/veeappdev> - VEE consultants and developers
available around the world, including some of our own vrf-ers.

There's more of course, but the find/vee link above will get you to most
of it if you do a bit of clicking around.

Best Regards,

Scott Bayes
Software Technical Support

Agilent Technologies, Inc.
815 14th Street S.W.
Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537

970 679 3799 Tel
970 635 6867 Fax

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VRFuser Mar 18, 2005 12:30 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hi vrf,

> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

It's amusing to see this ancient rumour popping up yet again. With all
the activity of VEE TV and VEE Days (just finished up our third
consecutive year of VEE Days seminars in Europe!), and the 7.0
release--with another big release to follow later this year--it's pretty
obvious that it really is nothing more than a rumour that won't die.

To make it really clear: VEE is alive and well, and it's going to be
around for a long time. We're continually improving it, both fixing
defects and adding new features, as well as making it work better with
the wide world of PC software and hardware.

By the way, just yesterday we released the VEE 7.03 patch, see the URLs
below for download info. Those of you on Support should have received
email notification of availability of the patch kit by now.

And Marketing has agreed to let me tell you this: we're going to be
releasing a new version of VEE in a few months, and it will have a LOT
of new features and improvements in it. I've seen most of the features
(we talked about some of them at VEE Days), and I know you're going to
like them.

Anyway, here are some useful links, in case you want to show co-workers
or management what's happening with VEE these days:

<www.agilent.com/find/vee> - the main VEE page. Lots of pages linked
from here. Check out these recent items:
- the EDN Hot 100 Product of 2004 award that VEE recently received
- the news on Agilent acquiring Vxl (makes talking to Excel from VEE
pretty darn easy) from PASS Technologies
- the new VEE Pro Book from Bob Angus and Tom Hulbert. Yep, a brand-new
book on VEE

<www.agilent.com/find/agilentveetv> - this is the VEE TV home page, what
else! We've seen Episode 1: What's New in VEE 7.0, and Episode 2: Intro
to MATLAB Scripting. But you may not have seen our first VEE TV Special
Report: Test Engineer of the Year. Dude, you gotta spend 10 minutes and
check it out! A driverless motorcycle is something to see!

<www.agilent.com/find/adn> - come here for the VEE 7.03 patch and all
other VEE downloads. Look under Software Downloads on the left, select
Agilent VEE Pro.

<www.agilent.com/find/veeappdev> - VEE consultants and developers
available around the world, including some of our own vrf-ers.

There's more of course, but the find/vee link above will get you to most
of it if you do a bit of clicking around.

Best Regards,

Scott Bayes
Software Technical Support

Agilent Technologies, Inc.
815 14th Street S.W.
Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537

970 679 3799 Tel
970 635 6867 Fax

---
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VRFuser Mar 18, 2005 12:30 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hi vrf,

> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

It's amusing to see this ancient rumour popping up yet again. With all
the activity of VEE TV and VEE Days (just finished up our third
consecutive year of VEE Days seminars in Europe!), and the 7.0
release--with another big release to follow later this year--it's pretty
obvious that it really is nothing more than a rumour that won't die.

To make it really clear: VEE is alive and well, and it's going to be
around for a long time. We're continually improving it, both fixing
defects and adding new features, as well as making it work better with
the wide world of PC software and hardware.

By the way, just yesterday we released the VEE 7.03 patch, see the URLs
below for download info. Those of you on Support should have received
email notification of availability of the patch kit by now.

And Marketing has agreed to let me tell you this: we're going to be
releasing a new version of VEE in a few months, and it will have a LOT
of new features and improvements in it. I've seen most of the features
(we talked about some of them at VEE Days), and I know you're going to
like them.

Anyway, here are some useful links, in case you want to show co-workers
or management what's happening with VEE these days:

<www.agilent.com/find/vee> - the main VEE page. Lots of pages linked
from here. Check out these recent items:
- the EDN Hot 100 Product of 2004 award that VEE recently received
- the news on Agilent acquiring Vxl (makes talking to Excel from VEE
pretty darn easy) from PASS Technologies
- the new VEE Pro Book from Bob Angus and Tom Hulbert. Yep, a brand-new
book on VEE

<www.agilent.com/find/agilentveetv> - this is the VEE TV home page, what
else! We've seen Episode 1: What's New in VEE 7.0, and Episode 2: Intro
to MATLAB Scripting. But you may not have seen our first VEE TV Special
Report: Test Engineer of the Year. Dude, you gotta spend 10 minutes and
check it out! A driverless motorcycle is something to see!

<www.agilent.com/find/adn> - come here for the VEE 7.03 patch and all
other VEE downloads. Look under Software Downloads on the left, select
Agilent VEE Pro.

<www.agilent.com/find/veeappdev> - VEE consultants and developers
available around the world, including some of our own vrf-ers.

There's more of course, but the find/vee link above will get you to most
of it if you do a bit of clicking around.

Best Regards,

Scott Bayes
Software Technical Support

Agilent Technologies, Inc.
815 14th Street S.W.
Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537

970 679 3799 Tel
970 635 6867 Fax

---
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VRFuser Mar 18, 2005 3:09 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer

Yes.....
This is very certain,When lab view 7 launched in India
,Same rumar was there that for VEE there is no development going on.
and It is dead product now.
Fortunatly in few months VEE 7 up came and it was stopped.
And in India Agilent do not have strong presence of VEE. Even newcomers do
not go for it ,as there are no job opportunities for VEE.Agilent must start
its presence from Universities in India as National Instrument do for
Labview in India.

I am sure this forum is also monitored at NI , and be preapred for such
rumors.

Hope this rumors will end here for once...

Long Live VEE....

Pramod Patil
Manager R & D
Enercon India Ltd.
33,Silver Industrial Estate,
Bhimpore Daman
India

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:08:04 -0500, Pat Vittorini wrote
> Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
> Instruments, someone in the LabView department???
> Shades of X-Files, Trust no 1.
>
> Pat Vittorini
> Lab Manager
> TenXC Wireless
> * 613-591-6696 Ext 244
> * PVittorini@tenxc.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Hammer [mailto:Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> > heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone
> currently assigned to work on VEE anymore.
>
> And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come
> from?
> That by itself shows current activity.
>
> Les Hammer
> Partner
> Complete Test
> 720 SW 14th St.
> Loveland, CO. 80537
> Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: PVittorini@tenxc.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ppatil@enerconindia.net
> To subscribe send a blank email to "join-
> vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this
> mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the
> mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".

**************************Disclaimer************************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Enercon India Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use,
copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any
manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************************

**************************Disclaimer************************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Enercon India Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use,
copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any
manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************************

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VRFuser Mar 18, 2005 3:09 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer

Yes.....
This is very certain,When lab view 7 launched in India
,Same rumar was there that for VEE there is no development going on.
and It is dead product now.
Fortunatly in few months VEE 7 up came and it was stopped.
And in India Agilent do not have strong presence of VEE. Even newcomers do
not go for it ,as there are no job opportunities for VEE.Agilent must start
its presence from Universities in India as National Instrument do for
Labview in India.

I am sure this forum is also monitored at NI , and be preapred for such
rumors.

Hope this rumors will end here for once...

Long Live VEE....

Pramod Patil
Manager R & D
Enercon India Ltd.
33,Silver Industrial Estate,
Bhimpore Daman
India

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:08:04 -0500, Pat Vittorini wrote
> Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
> Instruments, someone in the LabView department???
> Shades of X-Files, Trust no 1.
>
> Pat Vittorini
> Lab Manager
> TenXC Wireless
> * 613-591-6696 Ext 244
> * PVittorini@tenxc.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Hammer [mailto:Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> > heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone
> currently assigned to work on VEE anymore.
>
> And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come
> from?
> That by itself shows current activity.
>
> Les Hammer
> Partner
> Complete Test
> 720 SW 14th St.
> Loveland, CO. 80537
> Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: PVittorini@tenxc.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ppatil@enerconindia.net
> To subscribe send a blank email to "join-
> vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this
> mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the
> mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".

**************************Disclaimer************************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Enercon India Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use,
copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any
manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************************

**************************Disclaimer************************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Enercon India Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use,
copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any
manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************************

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VRFuser Mar 18, 2005 3:09 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer

Yes.....
This is very certain,When lab view 7 launched in India
,Same rumar was there that for VEE there is no development going on.
and It is dead product now.
Fortunatly in few months VEE 7 up came and it was stopped.
And in India Agilent do not have strong presence of VEE. Even newcomers do
not go for it ,as there are no job opportunities for VEE.Agilent must start
its presence from Universities in India as National Instrument do for
Labview in India.

I am sure this forum is also monitored at NI , and be preapred for such
rumors.

Hope this rumors will end here for once...

Long Live VEE....

Pramod Patil
Manager R & D
Enercon India Ltd.
33,Silver Industrial Estate,
Bhimpore Daman
India

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:08:04 -0500, Pat Vittorini wrote
> Are you sure that rumour wasn't started by the cabal at National
> Instruments, someone in the LabView department???
> Shades of X-Files, Trust no 1.
>
> Pat Vittorini
> Lab Manager
> TenXC Wireless
> * 613-591-6696 Ext 244
> * PVittorini@tenxc.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Hammer [mailto:Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> > heard from someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone
> currently assigned to work on VEE anymore.
>
> And just where do you think all those videos with the VEE Lady come
> from?
> That by itself shows current activity.
>
> Les Hammer
> Partner
> Complete Test
> 720 SW 14th St.
> Loveland, CO. 80537
> Les.Hammer@CompleteTest.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: PVittorini@tenxc.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ppatil@enerconindia.net
> To subscribe send a blank email to "join-
> vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this
> mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the
> mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".

**************************Disclaimer************************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Enercon India Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use,
copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any
manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************************

**************************Disclaimer************************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Enercon India Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use,
copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any
manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************************

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reiner.schlieker Mar 20, 2005 5:53 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
It IS amusing. Agilent seems to be doing more than ever before to promote
VEE (though I still think they need to do more). I went out to lunch on
Friday with two gentlemen from Agilent, one of which (Denis Gregoire) teachs
the VEE course out of Ottawa (that's in Ontario, Canada BTW) He also told
me that VEE was alive and well, and a new release (7.45?) was coming out
soon. And, that VEE 8.0 was certainly being worked on.

And, I got some demo units to play with!

Reiner

-----Original Message-----
From: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:30 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi vrf,

> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

It's amusing to see this ancient rumour popping up yet again...

---
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reiner.schlieker Mar 20, 2005 5:53 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
It IS amusing. Agilent seems to be doing more than ever before to promote
VEE (though I still think they need to do more). I went out to lunch on
Friday with two gentlemen from Agilent, one of which (Denis Gregoire) teachs
the VEE course out of Ottawa (that's in Ontario, Canada BTW) He also told
me that VEE was alive and well, and a new release (7.45?) was coming out
soon. And, that VEE 8.0 was certainly being worked on.

And, I got some demo units to play with!

Reiner

-----Original Message-----
From: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:30 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi vrf,

> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

It's amusing to see this ancient rumour popping up yet again...

---
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reiner.schlieker Mar 20, 2005 5:53 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
It IS amusing. Agilent seems to be doing more than ever before to promote
VEE (though I still think they need to do more). I went out to lunch on
Friday with two gentlemen from Agilent, one of which (Denis Gregoire) teachs
the VEE course out of Ottawa (that's in Ontario, Canada BTW) He also told
me that VEE was alive and well, and a new release (7.45?) was coming out
soon. And, that VEE 8.0 was certainly being worked on.

And, I got some demo units to play with!

Reiner

-----Original Message-----
From: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:30 PM
To: VRF
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

Hi vrf,

> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

It's amusing to see this ancient rumour popping up yet again...

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matthew.grabowski Mar 20, 2005 7:31 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hey,

I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with
labview that has some great capabilities, but in my experience (which is
limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've never gotten
the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview
products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to figure out
what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is much easier.
I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq card using all
labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to high and
low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I
reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card in VEE, and
have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could
not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview, but then
again I can't read icons that small.

On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming
undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt
solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost, and looking
for people like me as strange as we may be.

What to do, what to do...

Matt

P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too.

Davis, Jeff wrote:

>I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.
>
>It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.
>
>1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
>2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
>3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA.
>4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability.
>5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.
>
>The KICKER:
>
>Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see;
>
>1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
>2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16
>
>It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work
>
>Jeff Davis
>CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
>Embedded Systems and Electronics
>3137 E Elwood #160
>Phoenix, Arizona 85034
>Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
>Cell: (480)330-1431
>Fax: (602)431-4435
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
>>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
>>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
>>cost of an
>>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
>>$200 dollar
>>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
>>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
>>Agilent is losing
>>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
>>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
>>manager and
>>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
>>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
>>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
>>Vee would be
>>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
>>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
>>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
>>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
>>package.
>>
>>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
>>and it's getting heavier and heavier.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>Ken,
>>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
>>from another
>>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
>>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
>>assigned to
>>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
>>that...right? As
>>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
>>proportedly came
>>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
>>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
>>that after
>>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
>>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
>>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
>>the people
>>working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
>>terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
>>To: Estrin, Stephen
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>Hi Stephen:
>>
>>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
>>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
>>development on VEE.
>>We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
>>try to correct them.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
>>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
>>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
>>the current
>>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
>>yesterday for
>>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
>>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
>>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
>>supporting
>>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
>>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
>>like that
>>right up to the minute they pull the plug.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
>>[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
>>future by
>>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
>>
>>Mike Purtell
>>Agilent Technologies
>>Santa Rosa
>>
>>---
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>>
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>>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
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>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
>>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control
>>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
>>virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
>>
>>
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com
>
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matthew.grabowski Mar 20, 2005 7:31 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hey,

I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with
labview that has some great capabilities, but in my experience (which is
limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've never gotten
the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview
products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to figure out
what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is much easier.
I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq card using all
labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to high and
low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I
reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card in VEE, and
have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could
not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview, but then
again I can't read icons that small.

On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming
undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt
solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost, and looking
for people like me as strange as we may be.

What to do, what to do...

Matt

P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too.

Davis, Jeff wrote:

>I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.
>
>It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.
>
>1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
>2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
>3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA.
>4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability.
>5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.
>
>The KICKER:
>
>Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see;
>
>1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
>2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16
>
>It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work
>
>Jeff Davis
>CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
>Embedded Systems and Electronics
>3137 E Elwood #160
>Phoenix, Arizona 85034
>Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
>Cell: (480)330-1431
>Fax: (602)431-4435
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
>>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
>>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
>>cost of an
>>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
>>$200 dollar
>>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
>>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
>>Agilent is losing
>>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
>>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
>>manager and
>>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
>>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
>>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
>>Vee would be
>>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
>>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
>>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
>>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
>>package.
>>
>>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
>>and it's getting heavier and heavier.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>Ken,
>>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
>>from another
>>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
>>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
>>assigned to
>>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
>>that...right? As
>>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
>>proportedly came
>>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
>>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
>>that after
>>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
>>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
>>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
>>the people
>>working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
>>terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
>>To: Estrin, Stephen
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>Hi Stephen:
>>
>>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
>>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
>>development on VEE.
>>We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
>>try to correct them.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
>>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
>>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
>>the current
>>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
>>yesterday for
>>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
>>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
>>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
>>supporting
>>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
>>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
>>like that
>>right up to the minute they pull the plug.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
>>[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
>>future by
>>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
>>
>>Mike Purtell
>>Agilent Technologies
>>Santa Rosa
>>
>>---
>>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To
>>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
>>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
>>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>
>>
>>---
>>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com To
>>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
>>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
>>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>
>>
>>---
>>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To
>>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
>>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
>>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>
>>---
>>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: jeff.davis@cdi-es.com
>>To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
>>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
>>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
>>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control
>>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
>>virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
>>
>>
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com
>
>---
>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Matthew.Grabowski@colorado.edu
>To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
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matthew.grabowski Mar 20, 2005 7:31 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hey,

I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with
labview that has some great capabilities, but in my experience (which is
limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've never gotten
the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview
products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to figure out
what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is much easier.
I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq card using all
labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to high and
low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I
reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card in VEE, and
have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could
not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview, but then
again I can't read icons that small.

On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming
undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt
solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost, and looking
for people like me as strange as we may be.

What to do, what to do...

Matt

P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too.

Davis, Jeff wrote:

>I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.
>
>It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.
>
>1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
>2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
>3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA.
>4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability.
>5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.
>
>The KICKER:
>
>Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see;
>
>1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
>2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16
>
>It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work
>
>Jeff Davis
>CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
>Embedded Systems and Electronics
>3137 E Elwood #160
>Phoenix, Arizona 85034
>Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
>Cell: (480)330-1431
>Fax: (602)431-4435
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
>>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
>>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
>>cost of an
>>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
>>$200 dollar
>>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
>>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
>>Agilent is losing
>>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
>>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
>>manager and
>>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
>>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
>>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
>>Vee would be
>>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
>>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
>>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
>>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
>>package.
>>
>>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
>>and it's getting heavier and heavier.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>Ken,
>>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
>>from another
>>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
>>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
>>assigned to
>>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
>>that...right? As
>>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
>>proportedly came
>>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
>>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
>>that after
>>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
>>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
>>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
>>the people
>>working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
>>terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
>>To: Estrin, Stephen
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>Hi Stephen:
>>
>>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
>>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
>>development on VEE.
>>We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
>>try to correct them.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Estrin, Stephen
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
>>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
>>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
>>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
>>the current
>>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
>>yesterday for
>>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
>>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
>>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
>>supporting
>>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
>>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
>>like that
>>right up to the minute they pull the plug.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
>>[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
>>To: VRF
>>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>>
>>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
>>future by
>>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
>>
>>Mike Purtell
>>Agilent Technologies
>>Santa Rosa
>>
>>---
>>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To
>>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
>>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control
>>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
>>virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
>>
>>
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com
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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 7:53 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.

It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.

1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA.
4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability.
5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.

The KICKER:

Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see;

1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16

It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work

Jeff Davis
CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
Embedded Systems and Electronics
3137 E Elwood #160
Phoenix, Arizona 85034
Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
Cell: (480)330-1431
Fax: (602)431-4435

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
> against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
> cost of an
> upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
> $200 dollar
> upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
> warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
> Agilent is losing
> out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
> engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
> manager and
> co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
> price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
> 50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
> Vee would be
> everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
> gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
> premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
> upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
> package.
>
> OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
> and it's getting heavier and heavier.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> Ken,
> I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
> from another
> co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
> someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
> assigned to
> work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
> that...right? As
> you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
> proportedly came
> from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
> similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
> that after
> talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
> away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
> basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
> the people
> working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
> terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> To: Estrin, Stephen
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> Hi Stephen:
>
> Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
> Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
> development on VEE.
> We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
> try to correct them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken
>
> P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
> To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
> and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
> the current
> version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
> yesterday for
> quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
> VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
> future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
> supporting
> VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
> rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
> like that
> right up to the minute they pull the plug.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
> [mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
> To: VRF
> Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
> future by
> Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
>
> Mike Purtell
> Agilent Technologies
> Santa Rosa
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
>
> ---
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> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: jeff.davis@cdi-es.com
> To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
> known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control
> Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
> virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
>

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com

---
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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 7:53 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.

It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.

1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA.
4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability.
5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.

The KICKER:

Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see;

1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16

It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work

Jeff Davis
CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
Embedded Systems and Electronics
3137 E Elwood #160
Phoenix, Arizona 85034
Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
Cell: (480)330-1431
Fax: (602)431-4435

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
> against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
> cost of an
> upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
> $200 dollar
> upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
> warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
> Agilent is losing
> out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
> engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
> manager and
> co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
> price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
> 50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
> Vee would be
> everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
> gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
> premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
> upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
> package.
>
> OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
> and it's getting heavier and heavier.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> Ken,
> I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
> from another
> co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
> someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
> assigned to
> work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
> that...right? As
> you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
> proportedly came
> from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
> similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
> that after
> talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
> away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
> basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
> the people
> working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
> terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> To: Estrin, Stephen
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> Hi Stephen:
>
> Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
> Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
> development on VEE.
> We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
> try to correct them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken
>
> P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
> To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
> and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
> the current
> version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
> yesterday for
> quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
> VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
> future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
> supporting
> VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
> rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
> like that
> right up to the minute they pull the plug.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
> [mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
> To: VRF
> Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
> future by
> Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
>
> Mike Purtell
> Agilent Technologies
> Santa Rosa
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
>
> ---
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> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To
> subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
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> ---
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> If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
> known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control
> Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
> virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
>

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com

---
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Actions
VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 7:53 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.

It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.

1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA.
4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability.
5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.

The KICKER:

Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see;

1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16

It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work

Jeff Davis
CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
Embedded Systems and Electronics
3137 E Elwood #160
Phoenix, Arizona 85034
Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
Cell: (480)330-1431
Fax: (602)431-4435

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has
> against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
> cost of an
> upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
> $200 dollar
> upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7
> warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
> Agilent is losing
> out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the
> engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
> manager and
> co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
> price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced
> 50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
> Vee would be
> everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long
> gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
> premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
> upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
> package.
>
> OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years
> and it's getting heavier and heavier.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> Ken,
> I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
> from another
> co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
> someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
> assigned to
> work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
> that...right? As
> you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
> proportedly came
> from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
> similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
> that after
> talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came
> away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no
> basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
> the people
> working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be
> terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> To: Estrin, Stephen
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> Hi Stephen:
>
> Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
> Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
> development on VEE.
> We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to
> try to correct them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken
>
> P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
> To: VRF
> Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Estrin, Stephen
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
> To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
> Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
> and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
> the current
> version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
> yesterday for
> quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and
> VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
> future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
> supporting
> VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the
> rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
> like that
> right up to the minute they pull the plug.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
> [mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
> To: VRF
> Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
> I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
> future by
> Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
>
> Mike Purtell
> Agilent Technologies
> Santa Rosa
>
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paul.fowler Mar 20, 2005 8:51 PM
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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 8:52 PM
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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 9:30 PM
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> On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating,
> Linux proclaiming undergrad about not using Labview
> (contradiction?).

I don't think a whole heckuvalot of that crowd. Having interacted with the
open-source community quite a bit lately, I find them full of Windows
attitude. At least as far as PHP goes. A friend of mine uses a lot of GNU
tools for design, layout and microprogramming and he hasn't seen the same
thing. He says he's found the developer community invaluably helpful. I
guess I'm talking to the wrong people
-SHAWN-

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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 9:30 PM
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> On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating,
> Linux proclaiming undergrad about not using Labview
> (contradiction?).

I don't think a whole heckuvalot of that crowd. Having interacted with the
open-source community quite a bit lately, I find them full of Windows
attitude. At least as far as PHP goes. A friend of mine uses a lot of GNU
tools for design, layout and microprogramming and he hasn't seen the same
thing. He says he's found the developer community invaluably helpful. I
guess I'm talking to the wrong people
-SHAWN-

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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 9:30 PM
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> On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating,
> Linux proclaiming undergrad about not using Labview
> (contradiction?).

I don't think a whole heckuvalot of that crowd. Having interacted with the
open-source community quite a bit lately, I find them full of Windows
attitude. At least as far as PHP goes. A friend of mine uses a lot of GNU
tools for design, layout and microprogramming and he hasn't seen the same
thing. He says he's found the developer community invaluably helpful. I
guess I'm talking to the wrong people
-SHAWN-

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tapio.ronkainen Mar 20, 2005 10:14 PM
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR></HEAD><BODY><DIV>Hi ,</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I started my program off using a program originally written for us by an Agilent rep. Now that I am moving it from PC to PC I am finding out that it has an embedded i/o config. How do I get it to use my default i/o config. I got it so it doesn't ask me to add any instruments on load up now but it still says "Embedded Configuration" at the top of the IO manager. How do I make this go away?</DIV><DIV> </DIV>Mark J. Stasik Electronic Engineering Technician AMTI - Applied Marine Technologies Inc. 2929 Sabre Street, Suite 100 Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Office Phone - 1 (757) 962 3042 Office Fax - 1 (757) 961 5953 Cell - 1 (757) 375 2437 email - <A href="mailto:mstasik@amti.net">mstasik@amti.net</A> <DIV> </DIV>--- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: rsb@soco.agilent.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".</BODY></HTML>
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tapio.ronkainen Mar 20, 2005 10:14 PM
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR></HEAD><BODY><DIV>Hi ,</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I started my program off using a program originally written for us by an Agilent rep. Now that I am moving it from PC to PC I am finding out that it has an embedded i/o config. How do I get it to use my default i/o config. I got it so it doesn't ask me to add any instruments on load up now but it still says "Embedded Configuration" at the top of the IO manager. How do I make this go away?</DIV><DIV> </DIV>Mark J. Stasik Electronic Engineering Technician AMTI - Applied Marine Technologies Inc. 2929 Sabre Street, Suite 100 Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Office Phone - 1 (757) 962 3042 Office Fax - 1 (757) 961 5953 Cell - 1 (757) 375 2437 email - <A href="mailto:mstasik@amti.net">mstasik@amti.net</A> <DIV> </DIV>--- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: rsb@soco.agilent.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".</BODY></HTML>
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tapio.ronkainen Mar 20, 2005 10:14 PM
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR></HEAD><BODY><DIV>Hi ,</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I started my program off using a program originally written for us by an Agilent rep. Now that I am moving it from PC to PC I am finding out that it has an embedded i/o config. How do I get it to use my default i/o config. I got it so it doesn't ask me to add any instruments on load up now but it still says "Embedded Configuration" at the top of the IO manager. How do I make this go away?</DIV><DIV> </DIV>Mark J. Stasik Electronic Engineering Technician AMTI - Applied Marine Technologies Inc. 2929 Sabre Street, Suite 100 Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Office Phone - 1 (757) 962 3042 Office Fax - 1 (757) 961 5953 Cell - 1 (757) 375 2437 email - <A href="mailto:mstasik@amti.net">mstasik@amti.net</A> <DIV> </DIV>--- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: rsb@soco.agilent.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".</BODY></HTML>
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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 11:30 PM
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Is there a simple vee way to write a file to a directory that does not
exist.
That is, create the file and the directories.

Ex. we have C:Bob available.
I'd like to write to C:HarryTomfilename

So I'd like VEE to create Harry and Tom, before writing filename.

Thanks,

P.S. I lost the address to Shawn's archive, can you post it again.

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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 11:30 PM
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Is there a simple vee way to write a file to a directory that does not
exist.
That is, create the file and the directories.

Ex. we have C:Bob available.
I'd like to write to C:HarryTomfilename

So I'd like VEE to create Harry and Tom, before writing filename.

Thanks,

P.S. I lost the address to Shawn's archive, can you post it again.

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VRFuser Mar 20, 2005 11:30 PM
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Is there a simple vee way to write a file to a directory that does not
exist.
That is, create the file and the directories.

Ex. we have C:Bob available.
I'd like to write to C:HarryTomfilename

So I'd like VEE to create Harry and Tom, before writing filename.

Thanks,

P.S. I lost the address to Shawn's archive, can you post it again.

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robert.rais Mar 21, 2005 1:26 AM
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"><TITLE>Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><DIV id=idOWAReplyText67918 dir=ltr><DIV dir=ltr>One thing that I have noticed at our facility is that all of the custom activeX is a problem for the group of labview users. They say that I had it created specifically for VEE, yet is use the controls in VB,VB.Net and Web pages. I guess if that not being able to use activex easily in Labview they place blame some place else. </DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV></DIV><DIV dir=ltr>Bob</DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV><DIV dir=ltr><HR tabIndex=-1></DIV><DIV dir=ltr>tthew W Grabowski [mailto:matthew.grabowski@colorado.edu] Sent: Mon 21-Mar-05 13:31 To: VRF Subject: Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee </DIV><DIV>Hey, I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with labview that has some great capabilities, but in my experience (which is limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've never gotten the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to figure out what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is much easier. I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq card using all labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to high and low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card in VEE, and have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview, but then again I can't read icons that small. On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost, and looking for people like me as strange as we may be. What to do, what to do... Matt P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too. Davis, Jeff wrote: >I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust. > >It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game. > >1. NI has more people supporting their tools. >2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget). >3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA. >4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability. >5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards. > >The KICKER: > >Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see; > >1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339 >2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16 > >It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work > >Jeff Davis >CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies >Embedded Systems and Electronics >3137 E Elwood #160 >Phoenix, Arizona 85034 >Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226) >Cell: (480)330-1431 >Fax: (602)431-4435 > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Williams, Dan [<A href="mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com">mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com</A>] >>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM >>To: VRF >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has >>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the >>cost of an >>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a >>$200 dollar >>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7 >>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think >>Agilent is losing >>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the >>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a >>manager and >>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the >>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced >>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable >>Vee would be >>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long >>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a >>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream >>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software >>package. >> >>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years >>and it's getting heavier and heavier. >> >>Dan >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen [<A href="mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com">mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM >>To: VRF >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >>Ken, >>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it >>from another >>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from >>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently >>assigned to >>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than >>that...right? As >>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject >>proportedly came >>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a >>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write >>that after >>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came >>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no >>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where >>the people >>working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be >>terminated. I hope that this is not the case. >> >>Steve >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [<A href="mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com">mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM >>To: Estrin, Stephen >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>Hi Stephen: >> >>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE >>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping >>development on VEE. >>We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to >>try to correct them. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Ken >> >>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen [<A href="mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com">mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM >>To: VRF >>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM >>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)' >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent >>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond >>the current >>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent >>yesterday for >>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and >>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the >>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work >>supporting >>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the >>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things >>like that >>right up to the minute they pull the plug. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1) >>[<A href="mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com">mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM >>To: VRF >>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near >>future by >>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this? >> >>Mike Purtell >>Agilent Technologies >>Santa Rosa >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: jeff.davis@cdi-es.com >>To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >>_____________________________________________________________________ >>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all >>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control >>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local >>virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. >> >> >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit <A href="http://www.mci.com">http://www.mci.com</A> > >--- >You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Matthew.Grabowski@colorado.edu >To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > > > --- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Robert.Rais@us.yazaki.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". </DIV>
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robert.rais Mar 21, 2005 1:26 AM
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"><TITLE>Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><DIV id=idOWAReplyText67918 dir=ltr><DIV dir=ltr>One thing that I have noticed at our facility is that all of the custom activeX is a problem for the group of labview users. They say that I had it created specifically for VEE, yet is use the controls in VB,VB.Net and Web pages. I guess if that not being able to use activex easily in Labview they place blame some place else. </DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV></DIV><DIV dir=ltr>Bob</DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV><DIV dir=ltr><HR tabIndex=-1></DIV><DIV dir=ltr>tthew W Grabowski [mailto:matthew.grabowski@colorado.edu] Sent: Mon 21-Mar-05 13:31 To: VRF Subject: Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee </DIV><DIV>Hey, I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with labview that has some great capabilities, but in my experience (which is limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've never gotten the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to figure out what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is much easier. I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq card using all labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to high and low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card in VEE, and have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview, but then again I can't read icons that small. On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost, and looking for people like me as strange as we may be. What to do, what to do... Matt P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too. Davis, Jeff wrote: >I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust. > >It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game. > >1. NI has more people supporting their tools. >2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget). >3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA. >4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability. >5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards. > >The KICKER: > >Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see; > >1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339 >2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16 > >It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work > >Jeff Davis >CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies >Embedded Systems and Electronics >3137 E Elwood #160 >Phoenix, Arizona 85034 >Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226) >Cell: (480)330-1431 >Fax: (602)431-4435 > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Williams, Dan [<A href="mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com">mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com</A>] >>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM >>To: VRF >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has >>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the >>cost of an >>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a >>$200 dollar >>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7 >>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think >>Agilent is losing >>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the >>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a >>manager and >>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the >>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced >>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable >>Vee would be >>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long >>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a >>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream >>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software >>package. >> >>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years >>and it's getting heavier and heavier. >> >>Dan >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen [<A href="mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com">mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM >>To: VRF >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >>Ken, >>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it >>from another >>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from >>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently >>assigned to >>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than >>that...right? As >>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject >>proportedly came >>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a >>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write >>that after >>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came >>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no >>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where >>the people >>working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be >>terminated. I hope that this is not the case. >> >>Steve >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [<A href="mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com">mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM >>To: Estrin, Stephen >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>Hi Stephen: >> >>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE >>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping >>development on VEE. >>We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to >>try to correct them. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Ken >> >>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen [<A href="mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com">mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM >>To: VRF >>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM >>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)' >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent >>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond >>the current >>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent >>yesterday for >>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and >>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the >>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work >>supporting >>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the >>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things >>like that >>right up to the minute they pull the plug. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1) >>[<A href="mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com">mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM >>To: VRF >>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near >>future by >>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this? >> >>Mike Purtell >>Agilent Technologies >>Santa Rosa >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: jeff.davis@cdi-es.com >>To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >>_____________________________________________________________________ >>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all >>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control >>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local >>virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. >> >> >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit <A href="http://www.mci.com">http://www.mci.com</A> > >--- >You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Matthew.Grabowski@colorado.edu >To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". > > > --- You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Robert.Rais@us.yazaki.com To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To unsubscribe send a blank email to "leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". If you need help with the mailing list send a message to "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". </DIV>
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robert.rais Mar 21, 2005 1:26 AM
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><HTML><HEAD><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"><TITLE>Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><DIV id=idOWAReplyText67918 dir=ltr><DIV dir=ltr>One thing that I have noticed at our facility is that all of the custom activeX is a problem for the group of labview users. They say that I had it created specifically for VEE, yet is use the controls in VB,VB.Net and Web pages. I guess if that not being able to use activex easily in Labview they place blame some place else. </DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV></DIV><DIV dir=ltr>Bob</DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV><DIV dir=ltr> </DIV><DIV dir=ltr><HR tabIndex=-1></DIV><DIV dir=ltr>tthew W Grabowski [mailto:matthew.grabowski@colorado.edu] Sent: Mon 21-Mar-05 13:31 To: VRF Subject: Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee </DIV><DIV>Hey, I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with labview that has some great capabilities, but in my experience (which is limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've never gotten the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to figure out what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is much easier. I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq card using all labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to high and low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card in VEE, and have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview, but then again I can't read icons that small. On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost, and looking for people like me as strange as we may be. What to do, what to do... Matt P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too. Davis, Jeff wrote: >I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust. > >It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar. VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By the time that you figure out what you need to buy with Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the superior product has lost to the more widely advertised product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game. > >1. NI has more people supporting their tools. >2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget). >3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the technical schools and Universities in the USA. >4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView current and adding capability. >5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards. > >The KICKER: > >Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on VEE. Here is what you will see; > >1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339 >2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16 > >It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work > >Jeff Davis >CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies >Embedded Systems and Electronics >3137 E Elwood #160 >Phoenix, Arizona 85034 >Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226) >Cell: (480)330-1431 >Fax: (602)431-4435 > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Williams, Dan [<A href="mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com">mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com</A>] >>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM >>To: VRF >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think that Vee has >>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the >>cost of an >>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a >>$200 dollar >>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6 and Vee 7 >>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think >>Agilent is losing >>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so embedded in the >>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a >>manager and >>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the >>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price was reduced >>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable >>Vee would be >>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the days are long >>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a >>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream >>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software >>package. >> >>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here for years >>and it's getting heavier and heavier. >> >>Dan >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen [<A href="mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com">mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM >>To: VRF >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >>Ken, >>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it >>from another >>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from >>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently >>assigned to >>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than >>that...right? As >>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject >>proportedly came >>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a >>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write >>that after >>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other day, I came >>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and probably had no >>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where >>the people >>working on a project were the last to know that the project was to be >>terminated. I hope that this is not the case. >> >>Steve >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com [<A href="mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com">mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM >>To: Estrin, Stephen >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>Hi Stephen: >> >>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE >>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping >>development on VEE. >>We always like to see if we can track down where these rumors start to >>try to correct them. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Ken >> >>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen [<A href="mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com">mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM >>To: VRF >>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Estrin, Stephen >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM >>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)' >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent >>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond >>the current >>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent >>yesterday for >>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation violations, and >>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the >>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work >>supporting >>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who knows if the >>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things >>like that >>right up to the minute they pull the plug. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1) >>[<A href="mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com">mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com</A>] >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM >>To: VRF >>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee >> >>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near >>future by >>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this? >> >>Mike Purtell >>Agilent Technologies >>Santa Rosa >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: jeff.davis@cdi-es.com >>To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com". >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com". >> >>_____________________________________________________________________ >>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all >>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control >>Center. 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willie.kiely Mar 21, 2005 9:39 AM
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To expand on Mattew's experience,

I am the same. I learned LabView 15 years ago. What are we now LV 7.12.
Remember they have bug fixes aswell. As we all do!!!!

I hope it doesn't turn into NOW'58, NOW'59...etc.

I learned Vee (Probably3.0) a year later.

'Cant make an old dog do new tricks' springs to mind.

I promote my techs to lears LV, but still Vee is easier.

I Have given up on Vee DAQ supporters like measurementcomputing, and I use
NI
here. Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

I have still got to get an answer on the most flexible 'formulabox input'
Vee does this very well. LV does not have this option???

I canot remember the person who decided to solve this for me away from the
VRF, by taking this offline, but I still haven't got an answer

BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's

Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

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willie.kiely Mar 21, 2005 9:39 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
To expand on Mattew's experience,

I am the same. I learned LabView 15 years ago. What are we now LV 7.12.
Remember they have bug fixes aswell. As we all do!!!!

I hope it doesn't turn into NOW'58, NOW'59...etc.

I learned Vee (Probably3.0) a year later.

'Cant make an old dog do new tricks' springs to mind.

I promote my techs to lears LV, but still Vee is easier.

I Have given up on Vee DAQ supporters like measurementcomputing, and I use
NI
here. Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

I have still got to get an answer on the most flexible 'formulabox input'
Vee does this very well. LV does not have this option???

I canot remember the person who decided to solve this for me away from the
VRF, by taking this offline, but I still haven't got an answer

BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's

Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

---
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willie.kiely Mar 21, 2005 9:39 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
To expand on Mattew's experience,

I am the same. I learned LabView 15 years ago. What are we now LV 7.12.
Remember they have bug fixes aswell. As we all do!!!!

I hope it doesn't turn into NOW'58, NOW'59...etc.

I learned Vee (Probably3.0) a year later.

'Cant make an old dog do new tricks' springs to mind.

I promote my techs to lears LV, but still Vee is easier.

I Have given up on Vee DAQ supporters like measurementcomputing, and I use
NI
here. Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

I have still got to get an answer on the most flexible 'formulabox input'
Vee does this very well. LV does not have this option???

I canot remember the person who decided to solve this for me away from the
VRF, by taking this offline, but I still haven't got an answer

BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's

Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

---
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willie.kiely Mar 21, 2005 2:15 PM
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>>>This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX
hey?

To clarify, I didn't say LV has issues with ActiveX, someone else did. I
just prefer using the NI measurement studio activeX designed for VB, and
writing in VEE, instead of the 'small icon' LV world. And again, the
flexibility of the formula pin, which LV doesn't really have, to my
knowledge. It has a eval_formul_string, but you can't pass variables in
this.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Fessenden [mailto:shawn@testech-ltd.com]
Sent: 22 March 2005 14:09
To: 'Willie Kiely'; 'VRF'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

> Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX hey?

Bob - I'm not aware of anything you could possibly do that would allow an
ActiveX control or lib to work in VEE and not LabView. Short of checking in
DllMain to see what the host exe is and refusing to work if it's LabView.
Anyway, I imagine these custom controls are created with something that does
quick & easy (like VB) so that's probably out of the question.

> BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's
> Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

This is probably typical for any compiler vs. interpreter scenario (except
for very old compilers). Compiling is a pretty involved thing. Linking is no
big deal by comparison.
-SHAWN-

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willie.kiely Mar 21, 2005 2:15 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
>>>This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX
hey?

To clarify, I didn't say LV has issues with ActiveX, someone else did. I
just prefer using the NI measurement studio activeX designed for VB, and
writing in VEE, instead of the 'small icon' LV world. And again, the
flexibility of the formula pin, which LV doesn't really have, to my
knowledge. It has a eval_formul_string, but you can't pass variables in
this.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Fessenden [mailto:shawn@testech-ltd.com]
Sent: 22 March 2005 14:09
To: 'Willie Kiely'; 'VRF'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

> Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX hey?

Bob - I'm not aware of anything you could possibly do that would allow an
ActiveX control or lib to work in VEE and not LabView. Short of checking in
DllMain to see what the host exe is and refusing to work if it's LabView.
Anyway, I imagine these custom controls are created with something that does
quick & easy (like VB) so that's probably out of the question.

> BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's
> Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

This is probably typical for any compiler vs. interpreter scenario (except
for very old compilers). Compiling is a pretty involved thing. Linking is no
big deal by comparison.
-SHAWN-

---
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willie.kiely Mar 21, 2005 2:15 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
>>>This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX
hey?

To clarify, I didn't say LV has issues with ActiveX, someone else did. I
just prefer using the NI measurement studio activeX designed for VB, and
writing in VEE, instead of the 'small icon' LV world. And again, the
flexibility of the formula pin, which LV doesn't really have, to my
knowledge. It has a eval_formul_string, but you can't pass variables in
this.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Fessenden [mailto:shawn@testech-ltd.com]
Sent: 22 March 2005 14:09
To: 'Willie Kiely'; 'VRF'
Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee

> Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX hey?

Bob - I'm not aware of anything you could possibly do that would allow an
ActiveX control or lib to work in VEE and not LabView. Short of checking in
DllMain to see what the host exe is and refusing to work if it's LabView.
Anyway, I imagine these custom controls are created with something that does
quick & easy (like VB) so that's probably out of the question.

> BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's
> Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

This is probably typical for any compiler vs. interpreter scenario (except
for very old compilers). Compiling is a pretty involved thing. Linking is no
big deal by comparison.
-SHAWN-

---
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VRFuser Mar 21, 2005 4:09 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
> Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX hey?

Bob - I'm not aware of anything you could possibly do that would allow an
ActiveX control or lib to work in VEE and not LabView. Short of checking in
DllMain to see what the host exe is and refusing to work if it's LabView.
Anyway, I imagine these custom controls are created with something that does
quick & easy (like VB) so that's probably out of the question.

> BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's
> Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

This is probably typical for any compiler vs. interpreter scenario (except
for very old compilers). Compiling is a pretty involved thing. Linking is no
big deal by comparison.
-SHAWN-

---
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VRFuser Mar 21, 2005 4:09 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
> Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX hey?

Bob - I'm not aware of anything you could possibly do that would allow an
ActiveX control or lib to work in VEE and not LabView. Short of checking in
DllMain to see what the host exe is and refusing to work if it's LabView.
Anyway, I imagine these custom controls are created with something that does
quick & easy (like VB) so that's probably out of the question.

> BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's
> Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

This is probably typical for any compiler vs. interpreter scenario (except
for very old compilers). Compiling is a pretty involved thing. Linking is no
big deal by comparison.
-SHAWN-

---
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VRFuser Mar 21, 2005 4:09 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
> Vision, motion, DAQ, all NI, but written in Vee ActiveX

This is all pretty interesting... so LV has troubles supporting ActiveX hey?

Bob - I'm not aware of anything you could possibly do that would allow an
ActiveX control or lib to work in VEE and not LabView. Short of checking in
DllMain to see what the host exe is and refusing to work if it's LabView.
Anyway, I imagine these custom controls are created with something that does
quick & easy (like VB) so that's probably out of the question.

> BTW LV load time - ~20 minutes 2 CD's
> Vee -------------- ~3 minutes 1CD

This is probably typical for any compiler vs. interpreter scenario (except
for very old compilers). Compiling is a pretty involved thing. Linking is no
big deal by comparison.
-SHAWN-

---
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tapio.ronkainen Mar 21, 2005 5:14 PM
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Heh...

We got a nice NI image grabber card and NI-IMAQ parts for it. At the end of the day we were using the IMAQ thru ActiveX calls from Vee instead of Lab view. If was SO much easier.

But the the thing that Agilent REALLY should copy from NI is the student / university policy!!! The first love is always the best

imho, TR

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Matthew W Grabowski [mailto:matthew.grabowski@colorado.edu]
> Sent: 21 March, 2005 20:32
> To: VRF
> Subject: Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> Hey,
>
> I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with
> labview that has some great capabilities, but in my
> experience (which is
> limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've
> never gotten
> the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview
> products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to
> figure out
> what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is
> much easier.
> I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq
> card using all
> labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to
> high and
> low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I
> reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card
> in VEE, and
> have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could
> not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview,
> but then
> again I can't read icons that small.
>
> On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming
> undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt
> solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost,
> and looking
> for people like me as strange as we may be.
>
> What to do, what to do...
>
> Matt
>
> P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too.
>
>
> Davis, Jeff wrote:
>
> >I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way
> out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView
> has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools
> and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.
> >
> >It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product
> (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you
> buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to
> build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar.
> VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version
> with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By
> the time that you figure out what you need to buy with
> Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive
> to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the
> superior product has lost to the more widely advertised
> product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus
> Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.
> >
> >1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
> >2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
> >3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the
> technical schools and Universities in the USA.
> >4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView
> current and adding capability.
> >5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.
> >
> >The KICKER:
> >
> >Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on
> VEE. Here is what you will see;
> >
> >1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
> >2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16
> >
> >It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for
> LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that
> causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am
> finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work
> >
> >Jeff Davis
> >CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
> >Embedded Systems and Electronics
> >3137 E Elwood #160
> >Phoenix, Arizona 85034
> >Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
> >Cell: (480)330-1431
> >Fax: (602)431-4435
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
> >>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think
> that Vee has
> >>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
> >>cost of an
> >>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
> >>$200 dollar
> >>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6
> and Vee 7
> >>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
> >>Agilent is losing
> >>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so
> embedded in the
> >>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
> >>manager and
> >>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
> >>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price
> was reduced
> >>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
> >>Vee would be
> >>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the
> days are long
> >>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
> >>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
> >>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
> >>package.
> >>
> >>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here
> for years
> >>and it's getting heavier and heavier.
> >>
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>Ken,
> >>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
> >>from another
> >>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
> >>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
> >>assigned to
> >>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
> >>that...right? As
> >>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
> >>proportedly came
> >>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
> >>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
> >>that after
> >>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other
> day, I came
> >>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and
> probably had no
> >>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
> >>the people
> >>working on a project were the last to know that the project
> was to be
> >>terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
> >>
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com
> [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> >>To: Estrin, Stephen
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>Hi Stephen:
> >>
> >>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
> >>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
> >>development on VEE.
> >>We always like to see if we can track down where these
> rumors start to
> >>try to correct them.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Ken
> >>
> >>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
> >>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
> >>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
> >>the current
> >>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
> >>yesterday for
> >>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation
> violations, and
> >>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
> >>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
> >>supporting
> >>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who
> knows if the
> >>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
> >>like that
> >>right up to the minute they pull the plug.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
> >>[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
> >>future by
> >>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
> >>
> >>Mike Purtell
> >>Agilent Technologies
> >>Santa Rosa
> >>
> >>---
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> >>
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> >>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
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> >>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________________
> >This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet
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tapio.ronkainen Mar 21, 2005 5:14 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Heh...

We got a nice NI image grabber card and NI-IMAQ parts for it. At the end of the day we were using the IMAQ thru ActiveX calls from Vee instead of Lab view. If was SO much easier.

But the the thing that Agilent REALLY should copy from NI is the student / university policy!!! The first love is always the best

imho, TR

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Matthew W Grabowski [mailto:matthew.grabowski@colorado.edu]
> Sent: 21 March, 2005 20:32
> To: VRF
> Subject: Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> Hey,
>
> I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with
> labview that has some great capabilities, but in my
> experience (which is
> limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've
> never gotten
> the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview
> products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to
> figure out
> what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is
> much easier.
> I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq
> card using all
> labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to
> high and
> low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I
> reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card
> in VEE, and
> have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could
> not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview,
> but then
> again I can't read icons that small.
>
> On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming
> undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt
> solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost,
> and looking
> for people like me as strange as we may be.
>
> What to do, what to do...
>
> Matt
>
> P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too.
>
>
> Davis, Jeff wrote:
>
> >I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way
> out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView
> has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools
> and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.
> >
> >It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product
> (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you
> buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to
> build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar.
> VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version
> with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By
> the time that you figure out what you need to buy with
> Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive
> to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the
> superior product has lost to the more widely advertised
> product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus
> Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.
> >
> >1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
> >2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
> >3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the
> technical schools and Universities in the USA.
> >4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView
> current and adding capability.
> >5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.
> >
> >The KICKER:
> >
> >Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on
> VEE. Here is what you will see;
> >
> >1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
> >2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16
> >
> >It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for
> LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that
> causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am
> finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work
> >
> >Jeff Davis
> >CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
> >Embedded Systems and Electronics
> >3137 E Elwood #160
> >Phoenix, Arizona 85034
> >Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
> >Cell: (480)330-1431
> >Fax: (602)431-4435
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
> >>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think
> that Vee has
> >>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
> >>cost of an
> >>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
> >>$200 dollar
> >>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6
> and Vee 7
> >>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
> >>Agilent is losing
> >>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so
> embedded in the
> >>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
> >>manager and
> >>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
> >>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price
> was reduced
> >>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
> >>Vee would be
> >>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the
> days are long
> >>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
> >>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
> >>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
> >>package.
> >>
> >>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here
> for years
> >>and it's getting heavier and heavier.
> >>
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>Ken,
> >>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
> >>from another
> >>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
> >>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
> >>assigned to
> >>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
> >>that...right? As
> >>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
> >>proportedly came
> >>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
> >>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
> >>that after
> >>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other
> day, I came
> >>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and
> probably had no
> >>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
> >>the people
> >>working on a project were the last to know that the project
> was to be
> >>terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
> >>
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com
> [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> >>To: Estrin, Stephen
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>Hi Stephen:
> >>
> >>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
> >>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
> >>development on VEE.
> >>We always like to see if we can track down where these
> rumors start to
> >>try to correct them.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Ken
> >>
> >>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
> >>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
> >>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
> >>the current
> >>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
> >>yesterday for
> >>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation
> violations, and
> >>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
> >>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
> >>supporting
> >>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who
> knows if the
> >>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
> >>like that
> >>right up to the minute they pull the plug.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
> >>[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
> >>future by
> >>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
> >>
> >>Mike Purtell
> >>Agilent Technologies
> >>Santa Rosa
> >>
> >>---
> >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as:
> ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com To
> >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>To send messages to this mailing list, email "vrf@agilent.com".
> >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>
> >>
> >>---
> >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as:
> ken_colasuonno@agilent.com To
> >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >>"leave-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
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> >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>
> >>
> >>---
> >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as: Dan.Williams@analog.com To
> >>subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>
> >>---
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> >>To subscribe send a blank email to
> "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> >>If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> >>"owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >>
> >>____________________________________________________________
> _________
> >>This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of all
> >>known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control
> >>Center. However, it is still recommended that you use local
> >>virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________________
> >This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet
> Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For
> further information visit http://www.mci.com
> >
> >---
> >You are currently subscribed to vrf as:
> Matthew.Grabowski@colorado.edu
> >To subscribe send a blank email to
> "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
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> >If you need help with the mailing list send a message to
> "owner-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---
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> To subscribe send a blank email to "join-vrf@it.lists.it.agilent.com".
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tapio.ronkainen Mar 21, 2005 5:14 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Heh...

We got a nice NI image grabber card and NI-IMAQ parts for it. At the end of the day we were using the IMAQ thru ActiveX calls from Vee instead of Lab view. If was SO much easier.

But the the thing that Agilent REALLY should copy from NI is the student / university policy!!! The first love is always the best

imho, TR

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Matthew W Grabowski [mailto:matthew.grabowski@colorado.edu]
> Sent: 21 March, 2005 20:32
> To: VRF
> Subject: Re: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
>
>
> Hey,
>
> I do have to say that there is a huge amount of plug and play with
> labview that has some great capabilities, but in my
> experience (which is
> limited compared with the knowledge base reading this) I've
> never gotten
> the canned code that comes for third party test equipment or labview
> products to work in complex programs. I do end up trying to
> figure out
> what these do and then reimplimenting them in VEE, which is
> much easier.
> I think the day that my labview program driving my NI Daq
> card using all
> labview's drivers and VI's drove a digital pin on the card to
> high and
> low 20+ times before my program strated running was the last straw. I
> reimplimented everything down to the configuring of the card
> in VEE, and
> have never had the same problem since. Probably was just that I could
> not figure out how on earth to setup the daq card in Labview,
> but then
> again I can't read icons that small.
>
> On the other hand I get **** from my Mac toating, Linux proclaiming
> undergrad about not using Labview (contradiction?). Just when I felt
> solidarity with Mac users in a PC world, I'm now again lost,
> and looking
> for people like me as strange as we may be.
>
> What to do, what to do...
>
> Matt
>
> P.S. Just for common knowledge sake, NI reads this list too.
>
>
> Davis, Jeff wrote:
>
> >I don't think that VEE pricing is out of line - What is way
> out of line is the capability of LabView versus VEE. LabView
> has so much more going for it in the way of developer tools
> and native functionality. It leaves VEE standing in the dust.
> >
> >It really is too bad, because VEE is an awesome product
> (superior to NI in my humble opinion). By the time that you
> buy the LabView options that you need (with the ability to
> build executables) VEE is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar.
> VEE is "one shot one kill"; you get the VEE developer version
> with the built-in ability to build runtime executables. By
> the time that you figure out what you need to buy with
> Labview to do the same thing it definitely is more expensive
> to go the NI route. This is not the first time that the
> superior product has lost to the more widely advertised
> product. Look at Beta versus VHS and Windows versus
> Macintosh. He who advertises the most WINS the game.
> >
> >1. NI has more people supporting their tools.
> >2. NI has a MUCH larger advertising department (and budget).
> >3. NI and their tools are prevalent in almost all of the
> technical schools and Universities in the USA.
> >4. NI spends a sizable amount of time keeping LabView
> current and adding capability.
> >5. LabView is tightly integrated to NI hardware and plugin DAQ cards.
> >
> >The KICKER:
> >
> >Go to MONSTER.COM and do a search on LabView, and then on
> VEE. Here is what you will see;
> >
> >1. For LabView: Jobs 1 to 50 of 339
> >2. For VEE: Jobs 1 to 16 of 16
> >
> >It looks like there are just a few more Jobs out there for
> LabView programmers doncha think? This is the part that
> causes one lone tear to streak down my face. OK, I am
> finished whining now, ALT+TAB to your real work
> >
> >Jeff Davis
> >CDI Engineering Solutions Aerospace Technologies
> >Embedded Systems and Electronics
> >3137 E Elwood #160
> >Phoenix, Arizona 85034
> >Phone: (602)431-4497 (x226)
> >Cell: (480)330-1431
> >Fax: (602)431-4435
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Williams, Dan [mailto:Dan.Williams@analog.com]
> >>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 07:00 AM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>This rumor been around since Vee 3.12. One thing I think
> that Vee has
> >>against it is the pricing. Once you've paid for a version the
> >>cost of an
> >>upgrade is prohibitive. I could probably talk my way into a
> >>$200 dollar
> >>upgrade but I'm not convinced the difference between Vee 6
> and Vee 7
> >>warrants a 50% premium and neither is my boss. I think
> >>Agilent is losing
> >>out big time by over-pricing Vee. C programming is so
> embedded in the
> >>engineering community that it is an uphill battle to sell a
> >>manager and
> >>co-workers on the benefits of Vee over Labview/LabWindows. When the
> >>price is close Vee loses more often then not. If the price
> was reduced
> >>50% and the upgrade fee was lowered to something reasonable
> >>Vee would be
> >>everywhere. Unfortunately Agilent refuses to realize the
> days are long
> >>gone when the hp badge was on a product meant they could charge a
> >>premium and it was worth it. Instead of generating a revenue stream
> >>upgrades are now just a justification to use a different software
> >>package.
> >>
> >>OK sorry to rant but I've been carrying the Vee banner here
> for years
> >>and it's getting heavier and heavier.
> >>
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:35 PM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>Ken,
> >>I originally heard this rumor from a co-worker who heard it
> >>from another
> >>co-worker who is a former Agilent employee, who in turn, heard from
> >>someone still at Agilent that there wasn't anyone currently
> >>assigned to
> >>work on VEE anymore. Can't get any more direct than
> >>that...right? As
> >>you probably saw, the original posting on this subject
> >>proportedly came
> >>from an Agilent employee, I merely chimed in that I had also heard a
> >>similar rumor at one time, (which I had). I went on to write
> >>that after
> >>talking to Mario (last name unknown) at Agilent the other
> day, I came
> >>away with the sense that the rumor was just that, and
> probably had no
> >>basis in fact. But then again, sadly, I have seen cases where
> >>the people
> >>working on a project were the last to know that the project
> was to be
> >>terminated. I hope that this is not the case.
> >>
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: ken_colasuonno@agilent.com
> [mailto:ken_colasuonno@agilent.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> >>To: Estrin, Stephen
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>Hi Stephen:
> >>
> >>Would you care to tell me where you heard that rumor? I am the VEE
> >>Project Manager and we have no intention of stopping
> >>development on VEE.
> >>We always like to see if we can track down where these
> rumors start to
> >>try to correct them.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Ken
> >>
> >>P.S. VEE is an Agilent, not HP product.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen [mailto:ESTRINS@tycoelectronics.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:24 PM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: FW: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Estrin, Stephen
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:17 PM
> >>To: 'PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)'
> >>Subject: RE: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>I and some of my co-workers have heard a similar rumor that Agilent
> >>and/or HP would not be doing any further development beyond
> >>the current
> >>version. But I just talked to a guy named Mario at Agilent
> >>yesterday for
> >>quite a while about VEE and the infamous segmentation
> violations, and
> >>VEE in general. And although I didn't ask him specifically about the
> >>future of VEE, he seemed to imply that there is ongoing work
> >>supporting
> >>VEE, especially version 7.0 and a new update 7.03. So who
> knows if the
> >>rumors are true, a lot of the time a company will deny things
> >>like that
> >>right up to the minute they pull the plug.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: PURTELL,MICHAEL (A-Sonoma,ex1)
> >>[mailto:michael_purtell@agilent.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:55 AM
> >>To: VRF
> >>Subject: [vrf] Future ovv Vee
> >>
> >>I just heard a rumor that Vee was being abandoned in the near
> >>future by
> >>Agilent and HP. Any truth or news on this?
> >>
> >>Mike Purtell
> >>Agilent Technologies
> >>Santa Rosa
> >>
> >>---
> >>You are currently subscribed to vrf as:
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VRFuser Mar 21, 2005 11:53 PM
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VRFuser Mar 21, 2005 11:53 PM
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