AnsweredAssumed Answered

vrf 7.0 Reminder!

Question asked by warren.pickles on Mar 24, 2004
Scott,

Thanks for your reply, especially the clarification of the licensing.

By "expensive" I actually meant expensive in terms of human resource and
test station downtime.  The test stations only have runtime installed, so
there's no licence expense.

A pitfall we all need to be aware of is that VEE 7 does not support windows
95, according to the data sheet I downloaded.

Warren



-----Original Message-----
From: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
Sent: 24 March 2004 22:48
To: VRF
Cc: Pickles, Warren
Subject: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!


Hi Warren and the vrf,

Thanks for outlining your planned steps, it'll probably be useful for a
number of us.

> Second, install VEE7 on all test stations.  This is the
> expensive part.
> (Ongoing software development during this stage is done under VEE6).

I believe you're talking about the expense of extra licenses for the test
line.

Ever since 6.2, our licensing has had a clause in it that recognizes this
difficulty and reduces the monetary expense for most users. Basically it
says you can install a single copy of VEE and your purchased Product Key on
more than one computer, as long as it's only running on one computer at one
time, called "single simultaneous use".

The new license terms explicitly allow doing an extra install on a computer
for deployment and debug, as long as it's removed later so as to maintain
the single simultaneous use requirement. A lot of developers prefer to
remove the development environment and replace with runtime anyway, to
prevent the operators from getting "creative".

Another explicit allowed use is to install on both work and home computers,
again adhering to single simultaneous use. When you're at work, VEE is idle
at home, and when you're at home it's idle at work (when _I'm_ at home, it's
idle everywhere! Life's too short

So go ahead install your 7.0 where you need to, as long as it only in use in
one place at a time.

Best Regards,


Scott Bayes
Software Technical Support

Agilent Technologies, Inc.
815 14th Street S.W.
Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537

970 679 3799 Tel
970 635 6867 Fax

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pickles, Warren [mailto:Warren.Pickles@tycoelectronics.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:18 AM
> To: PDL-LISTS,VRF (A-Lists,unix1)
> Subject: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!
>
>
> Good morning vrf,
>
> I don't think there's any easy way to roll out VEE 7 to our users - I
> suppose that's the price we pay for all the cool new stuff. 
> I would be
> interested to know how any of you intend to do it.  For the
> record this is
> how what I'm going to do.  (At the moment all our test
> stations have VEE
> 6.x)
>
> First, check as far as possible that all my existing VEE6
> software runs OK
> under VEE 7 runtime.  (Ongoing software development during
> this stage is
> done under VEE6).  This part is the big unknown so I think we need an
> explicit answer to Mike's question below.
>
> Second, install VEE7 on all test stations.  This is the
> expensive part.
> (Ongoing software development during this stage is done under VEE6).
>
> After that I can happily develop in VEE7.  I might include a
> change so that
> the code checks the version when the program starts, and
> refuses to run if
> version is less than 7.
>
> Regards,
> Warren
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Groves [mailto:mikegroves@pacbell.net]
> Sent: 23 March 2004 08:31
> To: VRF
> Subject: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!
>
>
> Scott,
>
> What about VEE 7 RunTime? How confident are you, that if a
> person were to
> install VEE 7 runtime on all their workstations right now, it
> would run all
> previously trouble free VXE files without any hiccups? Can we assume
> one-version-fits-all in THAT department?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Groves
>
> BTW, is the VEE 7 runtime available as a separate download
> from the 250MB
> eval
> version? I poked around some, but I couldn't find it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:47 PM
> To: VRF
> Cc: bill.ossmann@philips.com; PDL-LISTS,VRF (A-Lists,unix1)
> Subject: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!
>
>
> Hi Mark, Bill, vrf,
>
> Yes, you'll probably want to keep 6.x around until you are
> satisfied that
> you
> (and your end-users) are completely moved over to 7.0.
>
> I still have 5.01 through 7.0 installed on MY computer
> because many users
> have
> not upgraded. Bummer.
>
>
>
> So side-by-side installs are a good idea till you've cut ties
> with earlier
> revisions. Just beware that only one revision can "own" the
> .vee suffix at
> any
> one time (same is true for .vxe).
>
> BTW, 7.0 fixes a bunch of elderly bugs (sorry, "defects"),
> too. After you
> download and install 7.0 eval, open Help > Contents and
> Index, and select
> "What's Been Fixed in This Version".
>
> (Thanks for the humour, Mark)
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Scott Bayes
> Software Technical Support
>
> Agilent Technologies, Inc.
> 815 14th Street S.W.
> Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537
>
> 970 679 3799 Tel
> 970 635 6867 Fax
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Goldberg, Mark [mailto:Mark.Goldberg@ATK.COM]
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:25 PM
> > To: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1); PDL-LISTS,VRF (A-Lists,unix1)
> > Cc: bill.ossmann@philips.com
> > Subject: RE: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!
> >
> >
> > So Scott, it sounds like we will all should keep 6.2 and 7.0
> > installed on
> > our systems not only to keep our backward compatibility but
> > to help those in
> > VRF that my not get upgrades right away. We still get posts
> > from people
> > using VEE5 and up, sorta regularly. Oh, and heaven forbid we
> > find a bug we
> > can't get around by upping older code! (Grin)
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:44 PM
> > To: VRF
> > Cc: bill.ossmann@philips.com
> > Subject: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!
> >
> >
> > Hi Bill and the vrf,
> >
> > Problem here is that if you forget and add one teeny-tiny
> 7.0 feature,
> > SURPRISE!
> >
> > You can't save as 6.x.
> >
> > Darn! or even stronger language.
> >
> > Then someone would have to grovel manually through
> > potentially thousands of
> > objects looking for the guilty one. Very nasty if it's a line
> > or lines of
> > .NET formula code in a Formula box, maybe buried among dozens
> > of lines of
> > other 6.x-legal code (also VEE itself would have to snoop
> > through everything
> > looking for 7.0 stuff to decide which file can legally be
> > formatted as 6.x,
> > decidedly non-trivial in the case of formulas).
> >
> > <Enlightenment!!> And of course, if the formula text is fed
> > in through a
> > Control Pin, and therefore could come from any combination of text
> > constants, math, data files, (even SCPI???) and text
> > manipulation, it's
> > essentially undecidable as to whether 6.x can handle it, even
> > if 7.x can. I
> > don't see a way around this one at all: I can see cases where
> > the program
> > runs fine in 7.0, but load it into 6.x and when you run it,
> > it goes BOOM,
> > not even a decent error message since 6.x doesn't know
> > anything about this
> > .NET stuff that could be wrong. Debugging that case could be
> > a nightmare,
> > and extremely expensive.
> >
> > I actually went through most of this discussion in the old
> > RMB days, with
> > RMB 7.0 (I was the R&D engineer who wrote the new 7.0 PROG2-format
> > program-storing code). We came up with the same answer: 7.0
> > did not attempt
> > to save in 6.x format for a variety of excellent reasons.
> >
> > There's really not a good reliable answer to this problem,
> > and unreliable
> > answers are all too often unreliable at just the wrong moment.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Scott Bayes
> > Software Technical Support
> >
> > Agilent Technologies, Inc.
> > 815 14th Street S.W.
> > Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537
> >
> > 970 679 3799 Tel
> > 970 635 6867 Fax
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bill.ossmann@philips.com [mailto:bill.ossmann@philips.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:39 AM
> > > To: PDL-LISTS,VRF (A-Lists,unix1)
> > > Subject: [vrf] RE: 7.0 Reminder!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > In cases where the VEE 7.0 code contains features not found
> > > in previous
> > > versions, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to have it
> > > refuse to
> > > write in an earlier format, ideally providing a list of the
> > > objects that
> > > prevent it. What would be nice would be the ability to
> > write files in
> > > earlier formats for programs in which it is possible.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > --
> > > Bill Ossmann
> > > Philips Ultrasound
> > > e-mail:  bill.ossmann@philips.com
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Bruno and vrf-ers,
> > >
> > > Yes, this is something you'll have to consider.
> > >
> > > Problem is, it's very difficult, maybe impossible, to come up
> > > with a design
> > > that safely suppresses new features so you can export to
> > > older VEE formats
> > > without breaking the .vee application. For instance, if you
> > > put some of the
> > > new .NET stuff in your application, what do we do with it
> > > when removing
> > > this feature for export? Maybe comment out the Formula object
> > > code lines?
> > > Ouch, now your code doesn't work right, if at all! Maybe
> > > remove the .NET
> > > Formula Object altogether. Ouch again! (and more ouch for the
> > > unconnected
> > > input pins on other objects!). What else? I can't think of
> > > much else we
> > > could do in this situation.
> > >
> > > And once your .vee is exported back to 6.x, someone has to
> > > figure out how
> > > to make it work again, assuming that's even possible. You
> > > have to hope the
> > > damage isn't too extensive. And every time you modify or
> > > enhance the app in
> > > 7.0 and re-export to 6.x, you would have to fix it again.
> > >
> > > Yes, we might have been able to do something, but I don't
> > know that it
> > > would have been very useful, and it would have taken a very
> > large R&D
> > > effort for little real value. We preferred to put the effort
> > > into Undo and
> > > Panel Edit enhancements, the Properties window with
> > > associated multi-object
> > > property edit, etc.
> > >
> > > By the way, the new data types (UInt8, Int16, etc) introduced
> > > in 6.0 had
> > > very similar characteristics with respect to preventing
> > > loading of 6.x .vee
> > > files into 5.x. It's part of the price of progress.
> > >
> > > And Microsoft has the same barrier with their languages. VB6
> > > code can come
> > > into VB .NET with reasonable ease, though most applications
> > > still require
> > > anywhere from a little to a lot of manual intervention to
> > complete the
> > > conversion, since the conversion is not perfect. But don't
> > > even think about
> > > sending your VB .NET code back to VB6! I'm sure earlier revs
> > > of VB and of
> > > other Microsoft languages posed similar "challenges" for the
> > > developer.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott Bayes
> > > Software Technical Support
> > >
> > > Agilent Technologies, Inc.
> > > 815 14th Street S.W.
> > > Loveland, CO, U.S.A. 80537
> > >
> > > 970 679 3799 Tel
> > > 970 635 6867 Fax
> > >
> > >
> > >  -----Original Message-----
> > >  From: Beliveau, Bruno [mailto:BrunoBeliveau@solectron.com]
> > >  Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:29 PM
> > >  To: PDL-LISTS,VRF (A-Lists,unix1)
> > >  Cc: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1)
> > >  Subject: Re: [vrf] 7.0 Reminder!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  This is a bug for people that send examples to help others
> > > on the VRF.
> > >  Those with versions previous to 7 will not be able to
> > > receive vee files
> > >  from those with version 7.  With version 6, there was always the
> > >  possibility to edit the file with a text editor and modify
> > > what version 5
> > >  doesn't understand (specially with reals ant integers).
> > >
> > >
> > >  The same problem when you have many tests stations installed
> > > with versions
> > >  5 or 6 and want to develop with the newer version 7 on your PC.
> > >
> > >
> > >  That would be a nice feature to be able to export to
> > > previous version (and
> > >  loose some functionalities in the process)...
> > >
> > >
> > >  -----Message d'origine-----
> > >  De: BAYES,SCOTT (A-Loveland,ex1) [mailto:scott_bayes@agilent.com]
> > >  Date: 19 mars 2004 16:25
> > >
> > >
> > >  Hello vrf-ers,
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Make copies of your existing .vee files before you edit
> > > them in 7.0!
> > >  ***
> > >
> > >
> > >  Just a note to remind you that once you edit a .vee file
> > > that originates
> > >  from an earlier version in 7.0, then save it, no earlier
> > > version will be
> > >  able to open the saved file.
> > >
> > >
> > >  We had to change the .vee format to support the new .NET
> and other
> > >  features, which prevents older versions of VEE from being
> > > able to read VEE
> > >  7.0 files.
> > >
> > >
> > >  Also note that Execution Mode has nothing to do with this:
> > > even if you set
> > >  the Execution Mode to an older one like VEE 5, VEE 7.0's
> > > Save will write
> > >  the .vee in 7.0 language, not 5.0, and older revisions won't
> > > be able to
> > >  load it.
> > >
> > >
> > >  So always make a copy first, in case you need to use the
> > > .vee in the older
> > >  revision some day.
> > >
> > >
> > >  VEE 7.0 warns you about this when you try to save a .vee
> > > that originated
> > >  in an earlier revision, but an extra reminder never hurts,
> > > since you can
> > >  force VEE to save over the original if you ignore the warnings.
> > >
> > >
> > >  This kind of compatibility break has occurred a number of
> > > times in past,
> > >  but it's been a while since it last occurred, and people
> > > tend to forget.
>
>
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